GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[SASSquatch]

CCS is not dead. CCS1 is dead.

$5 Billion dollars from the White House NEVI funding that requires you to include CCS, and twice the number of CCS chargers globally vs NACS says otherwise.

Nice try, though.

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[Zorg]

$5 Billion dollars from the White House NEVI funding that requires you to include CCS, and twice the number of CCS chargers globally vs NACS says otherwise.

Nice try, though.

Still meaningless numbers. Argument not that strong maybe... CCS1 is dead in the US. Let's have this discussion again in 12 months.

 

[SASSquatch]

Still meaningless numbers. Argument not that strong maybe... CCS1 is dead in the US. Let's have this discussion again in 12 months.

Okay, Jeff Bezos. I guess $5 Billion doesn't impress you much?

Remember. My beef isn't with NACS, its with letting an OEM who created the NACS charging infrastructure and controls nearly 100% of it, has a clear conflict of interest because they compete with the very OEMs using there infrastructure be in a position to monopolize the market.

This isn't about CCS vs NACS. It's about providing the best environment for the consumer. A charging standard that is truly open, isn't controlled or influenced heavily by a single private entity, and creates competition and innovation is a win for the consumer. Right now, this is a win for Tesla.

 

[2025R1S]

Tesla sets the standard here…..

Nothing else comes close to living up to the standard, or beating the standard.

I’m not “grasping” at anything. I have to keep repeating the same point because you will comment on literally everything except that point, including things I didn’t write and what you think my reaction to some future event might be.

I welcome more chargers for all to use. All I’ve said from the beginning is that Tesla’s plug cannot be considered a “standard” because only Tesla uses it and controls its use.

I don’t have any problems using a gas pump. I also don’t have any problems using a NACS charger. I have mentioned it before, but I was born with a birth defect - and I have an arm that is unusable. I can’t always get the CCS connector to release. I need to flag someone down that is able to use both of their hands to apply pressure to that latch and free it. I’ve even had CCS connector freeze to my vehicle. Millions of able, but slightly disabled Americans like me will struggle with CCS. I’m surprised the ADA isn’t suing the federal government for wasting taxpayer dollars on a solution that isn’t ADA compliant.

CCS is basically hostile to people like me.

Yes, I will admit that it is less user friendly - because there hasn't been a good enough effort to standardize to that standard.

Look at what the Europeans did. They forced a standard to CCS-2 and usability is quite good.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I want to reiterate something again. I am not opposed to the NACS port. I am opposed to adopting a standard that one entity has dominant influence and control over.

I would have much rather have had Ford and GM say "Hey, we are going to adopt the NACS port - and we are going to spend our $$ helping third parties already in the development pipeline institute this as a standard"

Vs. what they actually said:

"We don't care about the consumer. We don't want this problem. It is way cheaper to pay a ransom to Elon Musk and conserve billions in cash so that he can deal with it how he wants."

People complain about the fact that the CCS charger is bulky. Is it any bulkier than an existing gasoline nozzle?

The user friendly aspect is because the experience Tesla offers to Tesla drivers is standardized. You will only get that when you use a Tesla run Supercharger - and then you don't even know what it will be like when you are dealing with a different OEM that just has the port. You are likely going to have to jump through some hoops.

Third party NACS machines will act like CCS machines of today - the experience isn't standardized because Tesla isn't running it. So to get the more user friendly experience you have to submit to using a Tesla run supercharger. That will push you towards Tesla and make competition very difficult.

 

[COdogman]

Tesla sets the standard here…..

Nothing else comes close to living up to the standard, or beating the standard.




I don’t have any problems using a gas pump. I also don’t have any problems using a NACS charger. I have mentioned it before, but I was born with a birth defect - and I have an arm that is unusable. I can’t always get the CCS connector to release. I need to flag someone down that is able to use both of their hands to apply pressure to that latch and free it. I’ve even had CCS connector freeze to my vehicle. Millions of able, but slightly disabled Americans like me will struggle with CCS. I’m surprised the ADA isn’t suing the federal government for wasting taxpayer dollars on a solution that isn’t ADA compliant.

CCS is basically hostile to people like me.

I have said multiple times that I have no problem with the Tesla designed connector becoming the standard if that is what everyone prefers. And your situation is an important one as far as that goes. Again, all I have said is that plug should not be considered as “the” standard until control of its future is in the hands of an independent body or consortium of companies/ stakeholders. Not a single company.

I’m in favor of more chargers and more accessible chargers for everyone.

 

[docwhiz]

I have said multiple times that I have no problem with the Tesla designed connector becoming the standard if that is what everyone prefers. And your situation is an important one as far as that goes. Again, all I have said is that plug should not be considered as “the” standard until control of its future is in the hands of an independent body or consortium of companies/ stakeholders. Not a single company.

I’m in favor of more chargers and more accessible chargers for everyone.

Tesla has said they intend to transfer to an independent organization.
If you don't believe them, that is your problem.

 

[COdogman]

Tesla has said they intend to transfer to an independent organization.
If you don't believe them, that is your problem.

When it happens I will believe them. Sounds like your problem is believing a very untrustworthy man will follow through on his promise.

 

[2025R1S]

It would be really nice if the SAE and whoever else has a vested interest in CCS would quit being so tone deaf about their standard. They need to recognize its flaws, quit trying to force their hard to use solution on the public, and discuss how they plan to address the flaws of CCS1 in the next iteration of CCS1 (CCS1.2?)

For people like me to use CCS1, we need the connector to release easier, and the cable to be more manageable. It shouldn’t hurt my wrist trying to wrestle a CCS1 cable into the port, and it shouldn’t require me to flag down someone with 2 working hands to release the CCS1 cable from the port.

This CCS1 solution is a result of the independent body / consortium of companies / stakeholders. It is inexcusable that a standard (CCS1) that sought input from so many sources could somehow ignore (or forget) about making something ADA compliant, or user friendly.

Either intentionally, or unintentionally, Tesla made a connector that can be used by non-technical and partially disabled individuals. It shouldn’t be that hard for a independent body with a consortium of companies and stakeholders to do the same.

I have said multiple times that I have no problem with the Tesla designed connector becoming the standard if that is what everyone prefers. And your situation is an important one as far as that goes. Again, all I have said is that plug should not be considered as “the” standard until control of its future is in the hands of an independent body or consortium of companies/ stakeholders. Not a single company.

I’m in favor of more chargers and more accessible chargers for everyone.

 

[docwhiz]

When it happens I will believe them. Sounds like your problem is believing a very untrustworthy man will follow through on his promise.

Musk does what he says. You may not like it but he does follow through.

 

[COdogman]

It would be really nice if the SAE and whoever else has a vested interest in CCS would quit being so tone deaf about their standard. They need to recognize its flaws, quit trying to force their hard to use solution on the public, and discuss how they plan to address the flaws of CCS1 in the next iteration of CCS1 (CCS1.2?)

For people like me to use CCS1, we need the connector to release easier, and the cable to be more manageable. It shouldn’t hurt my wrist trying to wrestle a CCS1 cable into the port, and it shouldn’t require me to flag down someone with 2 working hands to release the CCS1 cable from the port.

This CCS1 solution is a result of the independent body / consortium of companies / stakeholders. It is inexcusable that a standard (CCS1) that sought input from so many sources could somehow ignore (or forget) about making something ADA compliant, or user friendly.

Either intentionally, or unintentionally, Tesla made a connector that can be used by non-technical and partially disabled individuals. It shouldn’t be that hard for a independent body with a consortium of companies and stakeholders to do the same.

Agree on all points. It should be done regardless of whoever makes those decisions.

 

[COdogman]

Musk does what he says. You may not like it but he does follow through.

 

[SANZC02]

Musk does what he says. You may not like it but he does follow through.

…not everything…..

 

[scottf200]

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[scottf200]

 

[Zorg]

This has nothing to do with promises and trust. A perpetual license to the connector is super easy to negotiate. The Tesla plug will most likely not change for decades, if ever. Too many vehicles and stations to retrofit. The access to Tesla network of SCs is a separate negotiation.

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