The state of the CCS charging network in USA is disappointing

[2025R1S]

That is a good point. A grocery chain in the southeast was one of the first to bring up the consequences of utilities getting in the EV charging business. The problem with utilities competing against everyone else is the fact that the utility doesn’t have to negotiate with anyone but itself. The grocery chain in the southeast was investing in DCFC’s, and they said - woah woah woah - wait a minute, how can any of us compete with utilities, who we buy the power from?

Now, I think the grocery chain brings up a valid point. Why should they (the grocery store) invest in DCFC, if they are going to be competing against the utility company? What protections does the grocery store have? This isn’t an impossible problem to solve; but it will require proper legislation to (essentially) protect everyone that isn’t a utility company.

I, personally, don’t know if the best way to deal with demand charges is to let utility companies take over EV charging. But I am interested in hearing more about how this could be accomplished.

Encourage the power companies themselves to operate them. They can pass the demand charges on to their entire customer base. The only way to not have to pay ridiculous demand charges for a sparingly used DCFC is to power it yourself.

Things like the Freewire Boost charger are a nearly adequate solution for these situations, but they also suck because it makes depending on one entirely predicated on someone else having not used it for hours before you need to.

Hell is definitely a real place outside of Ann Arbor in Michigan. Christmas, Michigan is also a very real place. Around here, the CCS network sucks. Ghost/vaporware companies promising DCFC for 1-2 years now - no progress. Even my beloved Rivian - who I will defend at every opportunity, falls short in Michigan, but I understand they need to use their cash for manufacturing EV’s, not the RAN. I could go on with more specific examples; but you get the point. Broadly speaking - this has been a real test of patience, especially as I watch Tesla rub it in our faces everyday.

Same here. Both in mileage and lack of problems. I know people have complaints and definitely agree the CCS networks are not perfect but they are getting better, even if slowly.

That said based on OPs profile I am calling troll unless the problem is they are unable to charge their Fiesta.

I have experience - with both Tesla and Rivian. I know what its like to charge at a campground for 4 or 6 hours, because all the DCFC are down. Before I bought the Tesla (and eventually the Rivian), I closely watched the buildout of the Tesla Supercharger network & CCS network. 2022 was looking like a bright year - a reassuring year. But I counted my chickens before my eggs hatched - the DCFC locations never showed up. The locations that were supposed to arrive in Spring ‘22 - never showed up (PlugShare has even pulled the locations off their ‘Coming Soon’ list, as it was genuinely misleading). Then, to make matters worse - the chargers have been going offline in key locations like Traverse City. In fact, the whole Blink network in Traverse City is crap. Those Tritium chargers are never working, or if they are - they aren’t charging at the rates they should be.

Some of my frustration comes from me putting too much stock in things that would ultimately never come to fruition. I don’t know how much of a problem this is in other parts of the country. It seems like a lot of small & independent companies are creating some marketing material - calling themselves an EV charging company. They begin advertising coming soon locations on their website, which then start to get added to PlugShare. Then these small companies never deliver anything. The Red E Charging Network is the biggest offender that I’ve seen.

https://www.redecharge.com/

It is fine to have failures - companies like Red E can fail to live up to their promises; but where is everyone else? I would have expected some other companies to have come thru with locations. 2022 has been a year of progress, sure, but at a glacial pace. I don’t think its fair to pick on Rivian and the Grayling location too much, because they have other priorities than spending their cash on the RAN. This discussion isn’t so much about Rivian and RAN; but the state of DCFC, the lack of progress, the failures in both the equipment and the smaller regional companies who promised to bring DCFC. I am sure DCFC is easier around California and New York; but it sucks in the midwest. I am glad to see more L2 chargers popping up - it helps, but we all know these do not charge fast enough for people who are on a road trip.

I know the IRA bill is meant to help; but i just don’t see how yet. Even if we subsidize more of the hardware, the operating costs are killing us.

Could be they don't have experience and are just looking at what exists on plug share. I think even the upper UP is possible in Michigan now, but you'll have to be willing to wait at fast chargers that aren't optimal. We didn't have any problems getting up to tahquamenon falls this summer.

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[2025R1S]

Exactly. Even in a Tesla, there are places in northern parts of the US where I have to be creative with my routes - do some “hub and spoke” style travel, where I frequently have to plan a stop around the single Supercharger site.

These same routes on any CCS vehicle are basically impossible for people with a family. Especially in some of the rural areas where speeds are 65MPH - but people are routinely doing 20MPH+ over. Vehicle efficiency in either a Tesla or Rivian drops exponentially as we go those kind of speeds in colder temps. I don’t have to tell you this.

Now as temps drop, and my consumption increases - I was really…..really hoping some more CCS chargers would be popping up by now. Even in a Tesla, the 6.5 hour route turns into 7.5 hour. So I am not trying to turn that 7.5 hour trip into a 8.5 or 9.5 hour trip - just to show up with 24% and no CCS chargers around. The hotels don’t have L2 chargers to top off, and in the few times I’ve tried to rely on hotels & public L2 chargers, the chargers were already in use. This isn’t a problem when I got a Supercharger down the road, unless I am in the Rivian.

More than once….I’ve had to slow my speed to make it to the next charger - and thats with spring & summer temps.

IMO, no one is truly invested in seeing CCS succeed, and we, as consumers, are all paying the price. The biggest proponents are the federal government and the penalty from an emissions scandal. At the end of the day, I am done with the games; and wish Tesla would acquire Rivian so I can….

1. Use their service centers
2. Use their chargers

But that is a whole different topic altogether. Until then, CCS needs to get it together. Because it sucks having only 1 vehicle that I feel….mostly unchained in (AND ITS NOT THE RIVIAN WHICH MAKES ME KIND OF LIVID IF YOU CAN’T TELL - It’s the fricking vehicle that scrapes over a speed bump because it sits so low to the ground).

I was just shy of the UP this summer in Eagle River Wi. My back up plan to get back over the western WI was to go east to Norway, MI to recharge. Looking again a new charger opened in Crystal Falls, MI since I was over there this summer.

But yeah road tripping a CCS car in the northern part of the US anywhere between central Montana and Michigan takes some creativity. Probably 2025 before it really gets much better.

 

[rivian1800]

You think it’s bad in the US, try going anywhere in canada that isn’t on the trans canada highway, or the trans canada highway before 2020 for that matter.

I’m planning on road trip in Canada ?? next year. Hope for the best ?

 

[rivian1800]

OTOH, apparently the situation is far better in Europe. What are they doing that we aren’t?

European countries have a different approach. Norway is “far,far away” compared with the rest of the world…Holland has more bicycle ? than entire country population and a LOT of charging stations. But the main thing is the willingness of politicians to take action and support the EV movement. And they have banned the production of ICE vehicles after 2035

 

[Tahoe Man]

California has stated ICE vehicles starting in 2035 will be banned. I call BS on all that. It won't happen, they'll keep pushing it out and then give up. The charging infrastructures, networks and reliability aren't even close to being remotely ready even in 20 years.

Interesting video from this EV fanatic, finally starts stating the truth to some degree. If that was me needing a charge, I'd be livid.
Public Charging an EV Can Really Suck - Here’s Why! - YouTube

 

[crashmtb]

I’m planning on road trip in Canada ?? next year. Hope for the best ?

where? It is not a small country.

California has stated ICE vehicles starting in 2035 will be banned. I call BS on all that. It won't happen, they'll keep pushing it out and then give up. The charging infrastructures, networks and reliability aren't even close to being remotely ready even in 20 years.

Interesting video from this EV fanatic, finally starts stating the truth to some degree. If that was me needing a charge, I'd be livid.
Public Charging an EV Can Really Suck - Here’s Why! - YouTube

California(and other places) plan to ban the sale of new electric gas cars from 2035

 

[rivian1800]

where? It is not a small country.
Still planning but ideally is coast to coast

California(and other places) plan to ban the sale of new electric cars from 2035

You are sure about “ banning the sale of NEW electric cars from 2035 by California(and other places)” ????

 

[crashmtb]

You are sure about “ banning the sale of NEW electric cars from 2035 by California(and other places)” ????

GAS cars. I’ve fixed it ?

 

[Tahoe Man]

You are sure about “ banning the sale of NEW electric cars from 2035 by California(and other places)” ????

where? It is not a small country.

California(and other places) plan to ban the sale of new electric gas cars from 2035

Yes, that's what I meant to write, but it's the same, it will not happen. ICE cars will not be banned from sale. It's a pipedream at best.

 

[emoore]

Yes, that's what I meant to write, but it's the same, it will not happen. ICE cars will not be banned from sale. It's a pipedream at best.

Yep they will be banned.

 

[Lil'Dave]

I bought a CSS adapter for our MY so I could try out some EA stations while we wait on the R1S. The locations of EA chargers compared to the SC network around where I live heavily favors the SC. Each time I think I can try out my adapter I go to the SC. Primarily because they are located in better locations (not a Walmart). Only drawback of going to a Rivian.

 

[Marchin_MTB]

It might be instructive to consider the different ways that a company like EA and ChargePoint, for example, operate. My understanding is that EA leases the land (usually from big box stores), then operates and maintains the hardware. It’s possible though, that when you visit a ChargePoint, the hardware is owned by the landowner who uses it to sell electricity and bring customers into their primary business. That business may or may not be interested in/capable of maintaining their DC charger and, if the hardware is down, ChargePoint is not responsible.

the difference in these operational models might help explain why there are so many defunct chargers around.

I would love to get better educated on this topic. If EA went out of business, then the long distance charging situation would be very bleak for CCS EVs in this area (Colorado). They are by no means perfect, but they are the most ubiquitous in my area and have at least some stalls working in each location I’ve ever visited here.

 

[Dark-Fx]

It might be instructive to consider the different ways that a company like EA and ChargePoint, for example, operate. My understanding is that EA leases the land (usually from big box stores), then operates and maintains the hardware. It’s possible though, that when you visit a ChargePoint, the hardware is owned by the landowner who uses it to sell electricity and bring customers into their primary business. That business may or may not be interested in/capable of maintaining their DC charger and, if the hardware is down, ChargePoint is not responsible.

the difference in these operational models might help explain why there are so many defunct chargers around.

I would love to get better educated on this topic. If EA went out of business, then the long distance charging situation would be very bleak for CCS EVs in this area (Colorado). They are by no means perfect, but they are the most ubiquitous in my area and have at least some stalls working in each location I’ve ever visited here.

Charge point doesn't own any of the chargers, they are all bought with maintenance contracts and network monitoring. EA owns and operates all the hardware.

IMO we are probably less than a decade from DC charging being a non-issue for the vast majority of places in the US. EVs are picking up steam and people are going to want to use them to drive everywhere without excuses or concessions.

 

[Marchin_MTB]

Charge point doesn't own any of the chargers, they are all bought with maintenance contracts and network monitoring. EA owns and operates all the hardware.

Thanks, I thought I saw that somewhere but wasn’t sure. Seems like a number of other companies follow the ChargePoint model. Is that right? Is EA unique in how they operate their business?

 

[AllInev]

Where is that incentive for Electrify America or the other players?

I’ve been wondering this same question for years. I can’t think of one. If it hadn’t been for diesel-gate, the pubic charging network would be even more pathetic.

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