The state of the CCS charging network in USA is disappointing

[2025R1S]

Is anyone else massively disappointed at the glacial pace of DCFC rollouts across the USA? It is frustration after frustration out there. If the glacial pace of installations or the reliability of existing locations isn’t depressing enough; I am seeing two, new, worrying trends….

• Locations installed on parking decks with weight limits that restrict most EV’s - e.g. 5500 or 6000lb vehicle limit. So…..basically a CCS fast charger for Teslas? C’mon….
• Locations installed in areas with very small parking spaces……so basically for Chevy Bolts. It isn’t that we can’t use these locations, but I will absolutely not leave the vehicle unattended - as anyone who parks next to me will have difficult getting out of their vehicle. Wtf……

I know those two scenarios are not happening everywhere. But the same issues in 2020…and 2021 that existed - still exist today. The fact that it takes so….so…..so long to even get a DCFC online (looking at you RAN Grayling), and then when the stations even come online, we have these sort of limitations? It is ridiculous.

Then….the fricking Tesla network, its like they just rub it in our face. We had a new ‘Coming Soon’ CCS charger listed on PlugShare, no progress for weeks; then…a Tesla coming soon location is added in the next town over - and then the Tesla location is operational before the CCS fast chargers even have electricity running to them. Then to add salt to the wound? The CCS “fast chargers” are the ChargePoint 62.5kW chargers, while the Tesla Superchargers are 250kW. I’ve been watching “coming soon” CCS fast chargers on Plugshare for 10 months now…..Wtf……

In a couple days, it is going to be November 2022, and I can’t help but feel we’d be further along by now. There are massive parts of the country that remain completely off-limits for us. Meanwhile, the rate that Tesla superchargers are being installed seems to be accelerating. At the same time, Tesla is now soliciting users to vote on supercharger locations…..like they are running out of locations to add them, and they need customers to help identify the gaps. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger-voting


There are places like Traverse City, Michigan that, despite having multiple CCS chargers, have just a single functioning CCS outlet in the whole area. I am shocked we are where we are. I am running out of excuses and explanations. We’re past supply chain shortages. We’re past typical delays in permits and approvals. I don’t know what to tell my family, my friends and myself anymore. I am not talking about just the RAN; I am including Blink, Volta, EVGo, EA and everyone.

I can’t be alone with these thoughts. Is there a CCS Fast Charger support group out there for us?

Sponsored

 

[Tahoe Man]

This is the reason why my wife and I have decided not to buy a BEV for now. We'll wait five years and see what state it is in at that point. I have also stopped being an EV advocate because of this pathetic state of DC fast charging. Just FYI, I have gone to EV events, etc over the years, but have stopped doing so. I am not going to plunk down $80k+ only to get stressed out when on road trips, but pretend I'm enjoying it. No way.

With our current plug in hybrid car, there is no planning needed and road trips are stress free. I am hoping Dodge comes out with a plug-in hybrid truck, I thought I read they are working on one. That would be great, I could drive EV around town and not have to worry about charging going on road trips. I could also tow!

 

[SRTConvert]

I think this is an economic incentive problem. I'm not sure how much (if any) Tesla makes in profit on its Supercharger network. It is, however, clearly a driver for Tesla sales and a real competitive advantage for Tesla. They also realize economies of scale in the standardization of the chargers, build outs and location acquisition.

Where is that incentive for Electrify America or the other players?

 

[Dark-Fx]

There are places like Traverse City, Michigan that, despite having multiple CCS chargers, have just a single functioning CCS outlet in the whole area.

Unless you are staying for more than a few days, I'd use the EA station in Cadillac on my way up and not worry about charging again while up there.

DCFC stations are super expensive to run and the ROI on them is terrible. We should see a lot more progress with the Infrastructure Bill, but it's still going to take a while.

 

[Tahoe Man]

I think this is an economic incentive problem. I'm not sure how much (if any) Tesla makes in profit on its Supercharger network. It is, however, clearly a driver for Tesla sales and a real competitive advantage for Tesla. They also realize economies of scale in the standardization of the chargers, build outs and location acquisition.

Where is that incentive for Electrify America or the other players?

The other car/EV makers could do their own charging infrastructure buildout. Keep it a closed system and maintain it. It seems Rivian has stalled on their Adventure network.

 

[rivian1800]

Is anyone else massively disappointed at the glacial pace of DCFC rollouts across the USA? It is frustration after frustration out there. If the glacial pace of installations or the reliability of existing locations isn’t depressing enough; I am seeing two, new, worrying trends….

• Locations installed on parking decks with weight limits that restrict most EV’s - e.g. 5500 or 6000lb vehicle limit. So…..basically a CCS fast charger for Teslas? C’mon….
• Locations installed in areas with very small parking spaces……so basically for Chevy Bolts. It isn’t that we can’t use these locations, but I will absolutely not leave the vehicle unattended - as anyone who parks next to me will have difficult getting out of their vehicle. Wtf……

I know those two scenarios are not happening everywhere. But the same issues in 2020…and 2021 that existed - still exist today. The fact that it takes so….so…..so long to even get a DCFC online (looking at you RAN Grayling), and then when the stations even come online, we have these sort of limitations? It is ridiculous.

Then….the fricking Tesla network, its like they just rub it in our face. We had a new ‘Coming Soon’ CCS charger listed on PlugShare, no progress for weeks; then…a Tesla coming soon location is added in the next town over - and then the Tesla location is operational before the CCS fast chargers even have electricity running to them. Then to add salt to the wound? The CCS “fast chargers” are the ChargePoint 62.5kW chargers, while the Tesla Superchargers are 250kW. I’ve been watching “coming soon” CCS fast chargers on Plugshare for 10 months now…..Wtf……

In a couple days, it is going to be November 2022, and I can’t help but feel we’d be further along by now. There are massive parts of the country that remain completely off-limits for us. Meanwhile, the rate that Tesla superchargers are being installed seems to be accelerating. At the same time, Tesla is now soliciting users to vote on supercharger locations…..like they are running out of locations to add them, and they need customers to help identify the gaps. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger-voting


There are places like Traverse City, Michigan that, despite having multiple CCS chargers, have just a single functioning CCS outlet in the whole area. I am shocked we are where we are. I am running out of excuses and explanations. We’re past supply chain shortages. We’re past typical delays in permits and approvals. I don’t know what to tell my family, my friends and myself anymore. I am not talking about just the RAN; I am including Blink, Volta, EVGo, EA and everyone.

With these thoughts, I can’t be alone. Is there a CCS Fast Charger support group out there for us?

I do not have ANY problem whatsoever charging at DCFC all over the places I’ve been traveling with my R1T (20.000+ miles). Not making fun but what part of the country are you living? Just to avoid the hassle next time when I go out for a looong cross country trip….
PS
If you’re in ND/SD that would be understandable but otherwise….hmmmm

 

[2025R1S]

Unless you are staying for more than a few days, I'd use the EA station in Cadillac on my way up and not worry about charging again while up there.

DCFC stations are super expensive to run and the ROI on them is terrible. We should see a lot more progress with the Infrastructure Bill, but it's still going to take a while.

I could have overlooked it; but how will the IRA reduce the cost of demand charges imposed by utilities? My understanding is that in almost all scenarios (when reviewing different utility providers, different times of use during the day, etc); DCFC are not profitable to operate. Examples like the Cadillac location being an option are great to be aware of; but lets all take a moment to recognize the amount of inconvenience were setting ourselves up for - while we tell everyone else that owning an EV is great. It is great, but the fact we have to do this is ridiculous - we’re doing it because the network at our destination is unreliable at best or not functioning.

The other car/EV makers could do their own charging infrastructure buildout. Keep it a closed system and maintain it. It seems Rivian has stalled on their Adventure network.

It seems other automotive companies have failed to recognize this. I’ve tried to understand why we’re seeing almost no progress in DCFC installations. All discussions and analysis repeatedly come back to the topic of demand charges. No one wants to get in the EV charging business if the cost to install is upwards of a million dollars, and the stations lose money on every kWh of electricity they sell. There is no path to profitability. The elephant in the room are the demand charges, and the inability to reduce them. At the same time, electric rates (per kW) are skyrocketing - making driving an EV as expensive as driving a gas car. The forces are working against us vs. for us (although if higher rates per kWh resulted in lower demand charges - I suppose this is a trade off I would be willing to make - only because I know it could result in more DCFC).

I am not sure if we are naive, or if the industry is naive. Did Ford and everyone expect someone would be interested in investing in a business that loses money on every transaction, so that their cars could be charged up? No one is rushing to enter the EV Charging market. Consumers are witnessing dozens of obscure, small charging companies make big promises, but fail to deliver. I am 100% convinced that we will not see progress with DCFC until automotive companies approach it like Tesla does.

I feel we gotta get more big pocketed companies to invest in charging (like GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc), we have to find out the root cause of why demand charges cannot be reduced, we have to identify what can be done to reduce them, and then we actually have to do whatever it is to reduce them.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I feel we gotta get more big pocketed companies to invest in charging (like GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc), we have to find out the root cause of why demand charges cannot be reduced, we have to identify what can be done to reduce them, and then we actually have to do whatever it is to reduce them.

Encourage the power companies themselves to operate them. They can pass the demand charges on to their entire customer base. The only way to not have to pay ridiculous demand charges for a sparingly used DCFC is to power it yourself.

Things like the Freewire Boost charger are a nearly adequate solution for these situations, but they also suck because it makes depending on one entirely predicated on someone else having not used it for hours before you need to.

 

[Tahoe Man]

I could have overlooked it; but how will the IRA reduce the cost of demand charges imposed by utilities? My understanding is that in almost all scenarios (when reviewing different utility providers, different times of use during the day, etc); DCFC are not profitable to operate. Examples like the Cadillac location being an option are great to be aware of; but lets all take a moment to recognize the amount of inconvenience were setting ourselves up for - while we tell everyone else that owning an EV is great. It is great, but the fact we have to do this is ridiculous - we’re doing it because the network at our destination is unreliable at best or not functioning.



It seems other automotive companies have failed to recognize this. I’ve tried to understand why we’re seeing almost no progress in DCFC installations. All discussions and analysis repeatedly come back to the topic of demand charges. No one wants to get in the EV charging business if the cost to install is upwards of a million dollars, and the stations lose money on every kWh of electricity they sell. There is no path to profitability. The elephant in the room are the demand charges, and the inability to reduce them. At the same time, electric rates (per kW) are skyrocketing - making driving an EV as expensive as driving a gas car. The forces are working against us vs. for us (although if higher rates per kWh resulted in lower demand charges - I suppose this is a trade off I would be willing to make - only because I know it could result in more DCFC).

I am not sure if we are naive, or if the industry is naive. Did Ford and everyone expect someone would be interested in investing in a business that loses money on every transaction, so that their cars could be charged up? No one is rushing to enter the EV Charging market. Consumers are witnessing dozens of obscure, small charging companies make big promises, but fail to deliver. I am 100% convinced that we will not see progress with DCFC until automotive companies approach it like Tesla does.

I feel we gotta get more big pocketed companies to invest in charging (like GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc), we have to find out the root cause of why demand charges cannot be reduced, we have to identify what can be done to reduce them, and then we actually have to do whatever it is to reduce them.

The only EV I would recommend to others would be Tesla, that is because I would feel comfortable knowing that they will always be able to charge just about anywhere. Telsa did the right thing to make their charging network a closed system. The CCS model isn't going to work out in the long term IMO. Nobody makes money selling electricity, so why take the risk.

I agree with your assessment. I think it is best for the EV/car manufactures to go at it alone with DC fast charging. The reward is they can make it into a proprietary network for only their vehicles or have a consortium of such. Each maker would be free to do whatever they deem is best, either charge for free and upfront the cost with a EV purchase do the subscription thing or whatnot. I am not sure why everyone thinks fast charging has to be modeled after the gas stations an open network for all. The current CCS model is just pathetic...broken, slow or worse getting stranded in some parking lot and to compare it with gasoline which is very cheap, very easy, very convenient, very fast, having amenities, restrooms, a roof over your head and it's everywhere too really makes me think if the EV thing is worth it.

I think we have to all admit that many put on fake smiles playing musical chargers to cover up the frustrations, while trying to convince themselves their doing the early adopter thing. My road trips with the family are suppose to be fun, not stressful.

Last, paying $50K, 60, 70, 90, 100K+ for an EV adds to the frustrations.

 

[zipzag]

Encourage the power companies themselves to operate them. They can pass the demand charges on to their entire customer base. The only way to not have to pay ridiculous demand charges for a sparingly used DCFC is to power it yourself.

Things like the Freewire Boost charger are a nearly adequate solution for these situations, but they also suck because it makes depending on one entirely predicated on someone else having not used it for hours before you need to.

The power company in an area of Wisconsin I travel to has removed their two chargers. The situation remains bad away from the Interstate. Apparently the lead time for DCFC equipment is extremely long.

 

[crashmtb]

You think it’s bad in the US, try going anywhere in canada that isn’t on the trans canada highway, or the trans canada highway before 2020 for that matter.

 

[BillArnett]

OTOH, apparently the situation is far better in Europe. What are they doing that we aren’t?

 

[jjswan33]

I do not have ANY problem whatsoever charging at DCFC all over the places I’ve been traveling with my R1T (20.000+ miles). Not making fun but what part of the country are you living? Just to avoid the hassle next time when I go out for a looong cross country trip….
PS
If you’re in ND/SD that would be understandable but otherwise….hmmmm

Same here. Both in mileage and lack of problems. I know people have complaints and definitely agree the CCS networks are not perfect but they are getting better, even if slowly.

That said based on OPs profile I am calling troll unless the problem is they are unable to charge their Fiesta.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Same here. Both in mileage and lack of problems. I know people have complaints and definitely agree the CCS networks are not perfect but they are getting better, even if slowly.

That said based on OPs profile I am calling troll unless the problem is they are unable to charge their Fiesta.

Could be they don't have experience and are just looking at what exists on plug share. I think even the upper UP is possible in Michigan now, but you'll have to be willing to wait at fast chargers that aren't optimal. We didn't have any problems getting up to tahquamenon falls this summer.

 

[jjswan33]

Could be they don't have experience and are just looking at what exists on plug share. I think even the upper UP is possible in Michigan now, but you'll have to be willing to wait at fast chargers that aren't optimal. We didn't have any problems getting up to tahquamenon falls this summer.

I was just shy of the UP this summer in Eagle River Wi. My back up plan to get back over the western WI was to go east to Norway, MI to recharge. Looking again a new charger opened in Crystal Falls, MI since I was over there this summer.

But yeah road tripping a CCS car in the northern part of the US anywhere between central Montana and Michigan takes some creativity. Probably 2025 before it really gets much better.

Sponsored