Opinion: The truck needs to switch to front wheel drive automatically on the highway.

[VHRivian]

I am a little surprised that this is so controversial. Every ICE truck I have been in for the last 20 years has an Auto 4WD setting where it operates as a RWD vehicle for fuel economy and then switches to 4WD if it detects wheel slippage. OR, you can select 4WD and it stays in 4WD all the time. Clearly this is not identical to that, but it's the same idea.

Rivian could easily add a toggle to automate Conserve mode when Driver+ is engaged, any type of cruise control is on, speed is above a certain point, or whatever use case they think makes sense. Not everyone would have to turn it on, but it would be a nice automated feature for those that want it.

I guess my questions is - Why not have the functionality?

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[zefram47]

A) most of the roads are not in the mountains of Colorado, B) I have, actually, and I wouldn't touch 70mph on the vail pass with snow on the ground, and C) I'd love to know what I don't know about. But I do know you don't use about 95% of available grip in either direction in typical highway travel, I don't care what state you drive in. Yes, obviously that 5% of the time you drive up and down the mountains west of Denver in a snow storm you need awd (even though traffic goes about 30), and in a good implementation that would be the case.

Sure sounds like you haven't. I've been on Eisenhower before with nothing but icy, slushy nastiness heading down the west side and the average speed of traffic was definitely pushing 60-70+. Meanwhile smart people test the brakes and realize no one is going to be stopping if they had to and slow down. But up in the mountains you can easily go from dry road to icy patch or some other slick road without realizing it. If *I* decide I want AWD, then give me AWD 100% of the time.

Of all the Subarus I've owned over the years the manual transmission cars with either mechanical or viscous center differentials handled much better and more predictably in slick conditions than the ones with automatics that used a hydraulic multiplate clutch in place of a limited-slip or lockable center differential. And that definitely includes highway speed running.

 

[zefram47]

Look at all those front wheel drive cars just spinning off wrapped around those telephone poles. I've driven worse in my old M3 with summer tires.

For the 11th time, when you drive a FWD you know what the handling characteristics will be. If you know you drive an AWD/4x4, then it damn well better behave the same at all times unless you manually change the drive configuration. In my 4Runner I literally have a mechanical lever that engages the front wheels via the transfer case and then it's in 4x4 (only for slick conditions, not dry pavement). Even in the variants with a center differential, you could still manually select RWD on some models vs full-time 4WD. You want FWD, then select Conserve mode and let the rest of us know what our vehicles are going to do. The torque vectoring available from quad motors is unlike anything any ICE on the road is capable of...don't neuter the truck because you're too lazy to plan ahead and hit a button.

 

[loudog3114]

I am a little surprised that this is so controversial. Every ICE truck I have been in for the last 20 years has an Auto 4WD setting where it operates as a RWD vehicle for fuel economy and then switches to 4WD if it detects wheel slippage. OR, you can select 4WD and it stays in 4WD all the time. Clearly this is not identical to that, but it's the same idea.

Rivian could easily add a toggle to automate Conserve mode when Driver+ is engaged, any type of cruise control is on, speed is above a certain point, or whatever use case they think makes sense. Not everyone would have to turn it on, but it would be a nice automated feature for those that want it.

I guess my questions is - Why not have the functionality?

My guess is most of these folks are new to electric vehicles and haven't suffered through a winter of 50% range or bad headwind / rain storm leading to a 25% loss. Anything that can be done to make an EV more efficient should be done in my book.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

My guess is most of these folks are new to electric vehicles and haven't suffered through a winter of 50% range or bad headwind / rain storm leading to a 25% loss. Anything that can be done to make an EV more efficient should be done in my book.

Or we know what we're doing and plan ahead appropriately to make use of the range we have available and the charging options available. Seriously, your conserve mode usage in winter might get you another 10 miles? Big fucking deal. And at the cost of safety. No wonder I can't stand east coast drivers, usually

 

[Diddy123]

Rivian could easily add a toggle to automate Conserve mode when Driver+ is engaged, any type of cruise control is on, speed is above a certain point, or whatever use case they think makes sense. Not everyone would have to turn it on, but it would be a nice automated feature for those that want it.

I guess my questions is - Why not have the functionality?

That's the thing. Most of us are in agreement that having it as an option would be fine for those few folks that seem to want the feature.

But OP has dug in his heels on the fact that EVERYBODY should want it all the time, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who doesn't know how to drive or doesn't understand physics of driving, or has never owned an electric vehicle before, or whatever the next excuse is.

 

[loudog3114]

For the 11th time, when you drive a FWD you know what the handling characteristics will be.

Most people have absolutely no clue what their handling characteristics are. They push a button to start it and drive it with the funny circle shaped thing in front of them with very little clue as to what their drive train is or how it will act anywhere near the limit.

 

[Dark-Fx]

That's a big fat no from me. You can already select Conserve mode when you want it. I want to know 100% whether my truck is in FWD or AWD mode as it will handle differently depending on the drive configuration. Especially in slick conditions, wet or snowy/icy, I want to know how my truck will react when I add inputs to the controls.

If I didn't forget to take it out of conserve mode when coming to a stop where cross traffic doesn't stop and I needed to turn out onto a busy road, I'd have a different attitude about it. The amount of acceleration available from a dead stop going into a turn in conserve mode is awful.

I'm used to just driving in sport or all purpose all the time, and it lead to me nearly getting smashed up and really pissing off the other drivers on the road because I ended up cutting them off. My fault? Absolutely was. Could it have been avoided if there was a toggle to allow conserve to kick on the rear motors if I flatfooted? Most likely.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Time to stop feeding the troll.

 

[loudog3114]

But OP has dug in his heels on the fact that EVERYBODY should want it all the time, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who doesn't know how to drive or doesn't understand physics of driving, or has never owned an electric vehicle before, or whatever the next excuse is.

I just think anyone who is making claims about how it will affect the driving characteristics of their car while idling along on the highway is utterly full of shit. I am incredibly passionate about cars, have raced a ton, tons of hpde days, drag racing, etc and owned somewhere around 70 cars in my day and I could give the absolutely slightest fuck about the rivian shifting power to the front (or rear wheels) while I'm idling along on a brainless drive through fucksville if it saves me 15 minutes at a charger.

 

[VHRivian]

That's the thing. Most of us are in agreement that having it as an option would be fine for those few folks that seem to want the feature.

But OP has dug in his heels on the fact that EVERYBODY should want it all the time, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who doesn't know how to drive or doesn't understand physics of driving, or has never owned an electric vehicle before, or whatever the next excuse is.

Got it - everyone loves a fight I guess.

in Iowa I can see myself using it as an automated feature 95% of the time. We have some severe winter weather where I would want to force 4WD even in a highway cruise situation because a drift or patch of ice can come out of nowhere even on a seemingly well-plowed road. Other than that, I can't see ever needing 4WD with the cruise set on the highway.

 

[zefram47]

...if it saves me 15 minutes at a charger.

Conserve mode will literally never save you 15 minutes at a charger. See the thread/video about driving faster and still coming out ahead at the charger vs driving slower and charging for less time. Conserve mode will save even less energy than driving slower. Literally the only time Conserve should be used is if you won't make it to the next charger without it and even then you'll be driving slower to stretch out the range a bit since aerodynamic losses will be far greater than the drive configuration.

 

[zefram47]

Most people have absolutely no clue what their handling characteristics are. They push a button to start it and drive it with the funny circle shaped thing in front of them with very little clue as to what their drive train is or how it will act anywhere near the limit.

While you're not wrong, don't limit my options because the lemmings don't know what they're doing.

 

[loudog3114]

Or we know what we're doing and plan ahead appropriately to make use of the range we have available and the charging options available. Seriously, your conserve mode usage in winter might get you another 10 miles? Big fucking deal. And at the cost of safety. No wonder I can't stand east coast drivers, usually

Conserve mode will literally never save you 15 minutes at a charger.

Having more battery left doesn't save charging time. Got it.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Conserve mode will literally never save you 15 minutes at a charger. See the thread/video about driving faster and still coming out ahead at the charger vs driving slower and charging for less time. Conserve mode will save even less energy than driving slower. Literally the only time Conserve should be used is if you won't make it to the next charger without it and even then you'll be driving slower to stretch out the range a bit since aerodynamic losses will be far greater than the drive configuration.

80 mph in conserve mode is the same speed as 80 mph in all-purpose or sport mode. I think OP is greatly overestimating the amount of energy saved and time taken off of a charge cycle, but 5 minutes could be a realistic number if you are truly trying to optimize everything. The longer you need to charge to make it to your next stop, the slower the additional energy is stored into the battery. Conserve could mean one fewer stops on a long trip if there are enough chargers available.
If there is any chance of bad weather, I wouldn't be worried about trying to save 5 minutes though.

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