Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING]

[COdogman]

Admin: Sorry for getting factual political, and I appreciate the sensitivity - but WHY did my posts about sharks with frick'n laser beams attached to their heads have to suffer for my sins?

Sharks are apolitical!

Then why is there so much RED in the water when they show up!!?

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[SASSquatch]

Then why is there so much RED in the water when they show up!!?

Everyone always has to go and blow gaping flesh wounds sooo out of proportion.

They have to balance out all that BLUE that they are swimming around in.

 

[SASSquatch]

No one needs an $80k vehicle. We all want the tax credit, and the tax credit can help me afford the truck, but let's be honest, we all want a Rivian, or something close, it isn't something we need. Try explaining how someone shopping for a $80 truck deserves more of a tax credit than someone who can barely afford a $25k car, gas or not.

Most people shopping for an electric vehicle are also homeowners. It would be a PIA for someone in an apartment to worry about charging as part of their daily/weekly routine, which is why it might make more sense to improve charging infrastructure instead of vehicle subsidies.

Also, a price limit gives manufacturers potential price ceilings. New car prices, gas, electric or otherwise, keep on rising. Raise the MSRP limit, I am manufacturers will find a way to meet that new, higher limit, and many people, will take a 5 or more year loan out to afford the monthly payments, as the manufacturers watch profits roll in. A price ceiling can potentially motivate manufacturers to actually figure out how to build an affordable vehicle. The main reason why the Ford Maverick is such a hit is it's price point, a price most manufacturers seem to have left behind for higher price points.

I will challenge you on this.

My R1T reservation is NOT an $80K vehicle. My configuration is much less than that and WITH the tax incentive, which was in play when I made my reservation, I was looking at this as a $67K vehicle which puts it in line with a range of trucks and SUVS that would offer similar kinds of features/capabilities (minus the electrification).

By denying RIVIAN the same 200,000 EV credits that were afforded to all previous manufacturers, including GM, Ford, Nissan, and Telsa, Congress is disadvantaging them, and every new EV manufacturer, because RIVIAN can't use that tax credit to incentivize sales and help overcome the high costs of mass production, especially in this inflationary market.

Everyone who placed a pre-March 1 reservation did so with the expectation that they would offset the price of the vehicle by $7,500. I would not receive that based on my income cap and if RIVIAN doesn't find a way around that if the measure passes, I will not be purchasing the R1T - I simply can't justify it over a comparatively equipped vehicle from a manufacturer (ICE) who has reduced cost because of scale.

In high cost of living states, $300K of income can mean living paycheck to paycheck and I cannot afford to pay a $7,500 penalty for purchasing an R1T.

That hurts me. That hurts RIVIAN, and that hurts the goal of reducing the number of ICE vehicles on the road and increasing the number of EVs.

 

[freshpow]

I will challenge you on this.

My R1T reservation is NOT an $80K vehicle. My configuration is much less than that and WITH the tax incentive, which was in play when I made my reservation, I was looking at this as a $67K vehicle which puts it in line with a range of trucks and SUVS that would offer similar kinds of features/capabilities (minus the electrification).

By denying RIVIAN the same 200,000 EV credits that were afforded to all previous manufacturers, including GM, Ford, Nissan, and Telsa, Congress is disadvantaging them, and every new EV manufacturer, because RIVIAN can't use that tax credit to incentivize sales and help overcome the high costs of mass production, especially in this inflationary market.

Everyone who placed a pre-March 1 reservation did so with the expectation that they would offset the price of the vehicle by $7,500. I would not receive that based on my income cap and if RIVIAN doesn't find a way around that if the measure passes, I will not be purchasing the R1T - I simply can't justify it over a comparatively equipped vehicle from a manufacturer (ICE) who has reduced cost because of scale.

In high cost of living states, $300K of income can mean living paycheck to paycheck and I cannot afford to pay a $7,500 penalty for purchasing an R1T.

That hurts me. That hurts RIVIAN and that hurts the goal of reducing the number of ICE vehicles on the road and increasing the number of EVs.

What's an example of a ~ $67k ICE that is similarly equipped? I don't think it exists...

 

[SASSquatch]

What's an example of a ~ $67k ICE that is similarly equipped? I don't think it exists...

 

[freshpow]

We could go around and around on the definition of "similarly equipped" but you shared a truck that is significantly slower and less capable off-road. Of course, it beats the Rivian in many other areas but I'm most attracted to the R1T/R1S for the speed and off-road capability, and I think many others are too. You may not see the value prop there, but others do and you'll be leaving money on the table if you don't at least buy and flip the R1T, even without the tax credit.

 

[TollKeeper]

Thats a subjective response really.

For example, I have perfectly budgeted my R1T. When PriceGate hit, I almost cancelled, as I could no longer budget the vehicle. Even with the Tax Credit, I couldnt budget it... But I held fast, RIVN rolled back, and it MIGHT pay off.

Now that interest rates are going up, and a recession has officially hit, I am again questioning the affordability of the new truck. Your right, I could buy it, and flip it.. Except I would still have to fork over money I dont have (taxes, down payment, etc) that I could be spending on a vehicle that I can afford. Leaving money on the table.. Yes. As I really dont have another option, and if the bottom falls out, who is to say I would flip the truck for more than I paid for it, let alone what I paid for it.

I live debt free, except for my house.. This will be my first debt I have incurred since I bought my house 10 years ago. Its actually very nerve racking for me. My wife doesnt work (stay at home mommy), and my job, although pays well, I still live in one of the more pricey markets in the country.

If I had the truck today, thats one thing.. But I, along with 90% of this forum, are still waiting.. Rivian could go tits up, we could go to WW3, the banking/stock market could crash.. There are a LOT of unknowns.

One day at a time is all I can muster at the moment.

 

[Bullitt]

Ahoy polloi!

I find it a bit exclusionary to think the tax credit isn’t putting the Rivian within some of our reach. This is far and away the largest vehicle purchase I’ve made. I want to go electric and I’ve been waiting to replace my gx470 which is now the same price in gas to drive per month as my loan, insurance and charging will be on the Rivian. For me the cost entry barrier is the only hurdle… $7500 is absolutely a part of that equation. And if I was subject to the price increase or not getting that $7500 I would not even be buying it to flip.

so while I appreciate most of you are high rollers… not all of us are.

 

[TollKeeper]

so while I appreciate most of you are high rollers… not all of us are.

AMEN!

 

[Yellow Buddy]

We could go around and around on the definition of "similarly equipped" but you shared a truck that is significantly slower and less capable off-road. Of course, it beats the Rivian in many other areas but I'm most attracted to the R1T/R1S for the speed and off-road capability, and I think many others are too. You may not see the value prop there, but others do and you'll be leaving money on the table if you don't at least buy and flip the R1T, even without the tax credit.

Lets be realistic. If you're going for speed and off road, this is the closest in the ICE category. Especially for post March 1 folks

 

[freshpow]

Thats a subjective response really.

For example, I have perfectly budgeted my R1T. When PriceGate hit, I almost cancelled, as I could no longer budget the vehicle. Even with the Tax Credit, I couldnt budget it... But I held fast, RIVN rolled back, and it MIGHT pay off.

Now that interest rates are going up, and a recession has officially hit, I am again questioning the affordability of the new truck. Your right, I could buy it, and flip it.. Except I would still have to fork over money I dont have (taxes, down payment, etc) that I could be spending on a vehicle that I can afford. Leaving money on the table.. Yes. As I really dont have another option, and if the bottom falls out, who is to say I would flip the truck for more than I paid for it, let alone what I paid for it.

I live debt free, except for my house.. This will be my first debt I have incurred since I bought my house 10 years ago. Its actually very nerve racking for me. My wife doesnt work (stay at home mommy), and my job, although pays well, I still live in one of the more pricey markets in the country.

If I had the truck today, thats one thing.. But I, along with 90% of this forum, are still waiting.. Rivian could go tits up, we could go to WW3, the banking/stock market could crash.. There are a LOT of unknowns.

One day at a time is all I can muster at the moment.

I'm not really sure who you were responding to, but my overarching point is that even without the tax credit, the R1T and R1S are still GREAT value propositions for pre-March 1 reservation holders. Given that the $7,500 is not point-of-sale, if you could budget for the truck before you certainly can still budget to buy it and flip it, since you will see the profit from your sale before you would see the tax credit. It's reasonable to have concerns about the looming recession but Rivian isn't going belly up anytime soon, at least before you have a chance to flip the truck for a decent profit. Who's to say you can flip it for a profit? Just keep an eye on the secondary market as they're still selling for well over $100k.

 

[freshpow]

Lets be realistic. If you're going for speed and off road, this is the closest in the ICE category. Especially for post March 1 folks

That or a Raptor - don't forget to include the insane dealer markups.

 

[Bullitt]

I'm not really sure who you were responding to, but my overarching point is that even without the tax credit, the R1T and R1S are still GREAT value propositions for pre-March 1 reservation holders. Given that the $7,500 is not point-of-sale, if you could budget for the truck before you certainly can still budget to buy it and flip it, since you will see the profit from your sale before you would see the tax credit. It's reasonable to have concerns about the looming recession but Rivian isn't going belly up anytime soon, at least before you have a chance to flip the truck for a decent profit. Who's to say you can flip it for a profit? Just keep an eye on the secondary market as they're still selling for well over $100k.

flipping vehicles with a lien hold is a pita and most prospective buyers are not keen to go that route. Are you suggesting buying the R1T outright to flip or flipping it with a lien in place?

just trying to better understand the flipper mindset here. Usually I only sell cars I own outright And the one time I did on a vehicle still being paid for it was both not appealing to prospective buyers and the one that did finally buy was on the hook to pay off my loan before getting a title signed over by me. It was tedious and almost fell through and that was a $10k car! Haha

 

[freshpow]

flipping vehicles with a lien hold is a pita and most prospective buyers are not keen to go that route. Are you suggesting buying the R1T outright to flip or flipping it with a lien in place?

just trying to better understand the flipper mindset here. Usually I only sell cars I own outright And the one time I did on a vehicle still being paid for it was both not appealing to prospective buyers and the one that did finally buy was on the hook to pay off my loan before getting a title signed over by me. It was tedious and almost fell through and that was a $10k car! Haha

Either way. You know more than I do as I’ve never sold a vehicle. I understand that if we do lose the tax credit (big if still), it may put the R1T/R1S out of range for some, but if that’s the case you can still afford the initial payments and financing. I don’t understand why if a $7.5k tax credit breaks your back, why you wouldn’t want to deal with the headaches of flipping it to make a quick $20k+.

 

[Bullitt]

Either way. You know more than I do as I’ve never sold a vehicle. I understand that if we do lose the tax credit (big if still), it may put the R1T/R1S out of range for some, but if that’s the case you can still afford the initial payments and financing. I don’t understand why if a $7.5k tax credit breaks your back, why you wouldn’t want to deal with the headaches of flipping it to make a quick $20k+.

I hear ya! the $7500 is paying back a loan to get to the down payment I need to make it affordable monthly. I’m in a shell game for this… the loan is from my own long term savings and my wife is not happy with this expense, so there is that.

I’ve sold literally dozens of cars and the one I did with a lien literally needed the buyer to go with me to my credit union, pay the credit Union for me and then had to hope I was honest and truthful to sign over the title when it arrived a month or so later. It’s not by any means a process I would assume to work with an $85k price tag after tax (CA, so I pay almost 10% in tax).

YMMV

edit: selling my gx470 and my e450 shuttle bus conversion make up the rest of paying back my down payment

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