RivianTrackr: "Stop Buying EVs for the Trip You Take Twice a Year"

[superfly_snook]

I don’t know anyone that takes two road trips a year. I take about 8. And given my other half also drives an EV we absolutely buy mine for those trips and that is really the only thing we buy it for as the rest of what I need a vehicle for is basic. So, range, charging speed, ability to get through snow, haul skis in the winter and mountain bikes in the summer are about the only things that differentiate options in my case.

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[SuperFeisty]

Does anyone else have a wife or significant other who has a tiny tank? On our road trips from Memphis to Nashville (200 miles) she makes me stop at least once. Now that we have a baby, stopping to feed and change her, I can't get OUT of a rest stop / gas station in fewer than 30 minutes with an ICE car. My only concern about charging is making sure there's a clean gas station / general store nearby.

 

[RedRaiderRivian]

Literally said in this thread I am getting an R2 for myself. I am offering a contrary opinion to the one expressed by the article in the OP. There are still significant limitations to what you can do with an EV while road tripping compared to an ICE vehicle. I'm making the case for why it DOES make sense to buy a vehicle that can handle the "two road trips a year" or whatever: the only real alternatives are to use someone else's vehicle (which is crap), or accept the limitations (spending an extra 90 minutes per day at chargers instead of doing something fun like seeing a waterfall or walking around a museum).

I literally gave up my last ICE vehicle because I would rather fly and rent a car than be in a vehicle for that long. To each their own until we have a transit system like Europe or Japan (spent two weeks there in May and never touched a car) so we don't have to rely on personal vehicles.
I also have another strong reason to give up all ICE vehicles. Emissions testing for air quality attainment. I don't have to worry about some random sensor or pollution control system causing me an expensive repair bill that is required to pass the annual inspection. Enjoy the R2 as many of us are enjoying our R1's and want to see Rivian continue to succeed.

 

[RedRaiderRivian]

I don't care to read through 10 pages of discussion, but a frequently neglected point is that many (most?) EV's are in two-car households.

Most households don't need two cars that can do roadtrips. A lot of families (anecdotally) buy a 300 mile range EV, then do road trips in their gas car anyways.

There's no reason many families can't have one car capable of road trips and another shorter range EV. That could make the EV much cheaper. The old Leaf and Slate went after this idea.

Having a Rivian and a Tesla, the Rivian has become our road-trip car and the Tesla is overkill for our needs. I'd be perfectly happy with a 150-200 mile range EV to replace the Tesla when it's time. As long as it is big enough to pack in the kids and a medium amount of kids sports gear.

My kids will also likely get a short-range EV when it's time to get them their first car.

My first EV is a 2016 Leaf and it was bought cheap as a third car that could be used around town by my teenage daughter. Perfect for that scenario where it will never be more than 50 miles from home. You are spot on that an EV with less range is a good option for multi-car households.

 

[BigSkies]

Does anyone else have a wife or significant other who has a tiny tank? On our road trips from Memphis to Nashville (200 miles) she makes me stop at least once. Now that we have a baby, stopping to feed and change her, I can't get OUT of a rest stop / gas station in fewer than 30 minutes with an ICE car. My only concern about charging is making sure there's a clean gas station / general store nearby.

Absolutely. Both my wife and kids.

I also have a bit of Clark Griswold road-tripper in me. As a dad, I love being able to strategically plan trips so my kids accidentally learn something.

Hey kids, we need to charge in Shoshone for an hour to get a full charge before Death Valley. And look, it happens to be right next to the mining museum where we can all learn about California mining history.

Our road trip routine looks something like this:

-A morning start, and drive about 1.5-2.5hrs. We stop for 10-15 minutes to use the restroom and charge while we're there. It's not an efficient charging stop as the battery is at a high-ish SOC, but it's a top-off.

-Drive for another 1.5-2.5 hours. We'll stop for a longish lunch while we charge. Sometimes it's a sit-down restaurant, or other times we'll do a picnic lunch (preferred). This usually takes 45 minutes and the car is back to 90%+ by the time we're done.

-Drive for another 1.5-2.5 hours, then take another 10-15 minute break while charging.

-Drive to our destination. I set a charging plan to get the car to a high SOC by the next morning if we're driving again.

We still make ~500 miles in a day, which is roughly what we did in our gas car. The pacing is a little different, but we arrive better rested. We did one 700 mile day on our last trip, and that was rough. Charging added maybe 45 minutes or an hour over what we would have stopped in a gas car.

My general advice to new car buyers is that EV's are perfectly capable for anyone who does roadtrips of about 550 miles a day or less. People going for 750+ miles in a day are in for a rough time.

 

[FlyingPilot2012]

I don't care to read through 10 pages of discussion, but a frequently neglected point is that many (most?) EV's are in two-car households.

Most households don't need two cars that can do roadtrips. A lot of families (anecdotally) buy a 300 mile range EV, then do road trips in their gas car anyways.

This is spot on for us. The R2 would be our first electric, but we aren't giving up our ICE vehicles. We definitely do more than two road trips a year and typically use our 2018 XC60 which easily has a 500 mile tank (I've gotten 600 before). Our most frequent trip is 500 miles (one way) VA to CT which we do 2-4 times a year. Then we'll usually have at least 1-3 other 500+ mile (1,000+ round trip) trips like VA to FL or similar.

If the R2 isn't up to the task on these 500 mile trips, we'll just keep using the XC60 and relegate the R2 to around town stuff or shorter trips (we also do a ton of 100ish mile shorter trips).

I don't think I'll mind the charging stops too much on these longer trips. However, I was disappointed to discover that public fast charging costs nearly the same per mile as filling up my XC60 with premium gas (based on R2 highway efficiency tests). I was really hoping the extra effort of stopping to charge for 20-30 mins every now and then was going to come with a cost savings reward, but oh well...

 

[Jeremy3292]

I think EV range is highly personal depending on your life and your location. Where R2 range could be of a concern me as a real life example is the following. I drive from SC to VA and back a decent amount each year. it is 350 miles or so. I always stop once in the middle to go to the bathroom and charge my Tesla Model 3. That was always the case no matter the time of the year, only one stop in the middle. If R2 range makes me have to charge deeper (past 75-80%) or have to stop another time bc it can't make it, well then that would be very disappointing. I think I will be ok, but it is something that is going to annoy me a lot if it happens. I won't know for sure until I get the car but I am mildly concerned about it.

 

[Vik]

There are several factors that can affect range - speed, temperature, wind. If I want to go on a road trip in winter when it is 20F out, windy, and drive at 80 mph, what range am I realistically getting on an R2? 180 miles since I won't drive to 0% SOC? That's only 2 hours 15 minutes of driving.

 

[tivoboy]

This is spot on for us. The R2 would be our first electric, but we aren't giving up our ICE vehicles. We definitely do more than two road trips a year and typically use our 2018 XC60 which easily has a 500 mile tank (I've gotten 600 before). Our most frequent trip is 500 miles (one way) VA to CT which we do 2-4 times a year. Then we'll usually have at least 1-3 other 500+ mile (1,000+ round trip) trips like VA to FL or similar.

If the R2 isn't up to the task on these 500 mile trips, we'll just keep using the XC60 and relegate the R2 to around town stuff or shorter trips (we also do a ton of 100ish mile shorter trips).

I don't think I'll mind the charging stops too much on these longer trips. However, I was disappointed to discover that public fast charging costs nearly the same per mile as filling up my XC60 with premium gas (based on R2 highway efficiency tests). I was really hoping the extra effort of stopping to charge for 20-30 mins every now and then was going to come with a cost savings reward, but oh well...

Public and most highway DCFC at around .50 cents per KW still should land around 1/3 to 1/2 the price of course depending on where one lives and pays for gas.

Out here, I could drive my Mercedes 300 miles around town and highway, and use 12.5gl of gas.. at $5 that’s $60-75 depending if I get 20-24 mpg... to charge my tesla and go the same, I’d need ~ 75 kw, which is about $37.5.

Of course on highway a gas car gets a little better, and an EV gets a bit worse, but it’s still cheaper..

For the R2, yes it’s basically a wash, although you don’t pay $5 a gallon for gas in VA, and public DCFC there I’m not sure of the pricing. and it appears it would take ~ 85-95 kw in the R2 to get the same 300 mile range.

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

I am confused how anyone thinks they need to calculate


Non-stop 75MPH doesn't really sound like real world to me...

I don't drop below 75 mph on my monthly trips to my San Diego home once I get on the freeway for as long as the battery will go, never.

 

[iamnid]

I don't drop below 75 mph on my monthly trips to my San Diego home once I get on the freeway for as long as the battery will go, never.

100%! I drive from the Inland Empire to Las Vegas a couple of times every year and, unless there's a left lane hog or traffic, the speedometer is set to 80 and I'm going with the flow of traffic the whole way.

 

[forestwalker]

I don't drop below 75 mph on my monthly trips to my San Diego home once I get on the freeway for as long as the battery will go, never.

Oh how I wish I were able to do this.

This is my daily commute home...

 

[tgo10000]

When we went all EV in 2021, we figured we could rent an ICE vehicle for long trips as people with ICE vehicles at home sometimes do anyway for various reasons.

We’ve done 3, 7, 10 and 18 hour drives and we roadtrip a few times a year. We’ve never rented an ICE vehicle, we’re just not interested in driving them as EVs are a superior driving experience. Without question on longer trips or depending on the route, it is less convenient than an ICE vehicle and takes longer, but we’re totally fine with the trade off.

Since 95% of driving is daily, we still save time annually without gas stations during the week and less vehicle maintenance.

If the focus is narrowed to long trips and you don’t want the inconvenience on those trips, that’s fine, no one is forcing you to like or talk about EVs and how to best use them, but that’s also not the only opinion.

 

[FlyingPilot2012]

Public and most highway DCFC at around .50 cents per KW still should land around 1/3 to 1/2 the price of course depending on where one lives and pays for gas.

Out here, I could drive my Mercedes 300 miles around town and highway, and use 12.5gl of gas.. at $5 that’s $60-75 depending if I get 20-24 mpg... to charge my tesla and go the same, I’d need ~ 75 kw, which is about $37.5.

Of course on highway a gas car gets a little better, and an EV gets a bit worse, but it’s still cheaper..

For the R2, yes it’s basically a wash, although you don’t pay $5 a gallon for gas in VA, and public DCFC there I’m not sure of the pricing. and it appears it would take ~ 85-95 kw in the R2 to get the same 300 mile range.

I just got back from a 1200 mile round trip to CT in my XC60 and ran some numbers to see how it would compare to an R2:

My XC60 got 28mpg across 1200 miles which is 43 gallons. Premium in my part of VA was about $4 when I left, and it was $5 in CT. So average out $4.50/gallon x 43 gallons = $193.

Based off recent range tests, I assume the R2 would average 2.75 mi/kWh on this trip, which is 436 kWh across 1200 miles. If I only charged at public chargers at $0.50/kWh, then that's $218. If I factor in fully charging at home in VA before leaving ($0.20/kWh) and charging up in CT before leaving my folks ($0.30/kWh), that does bring it down to something closer to $180.

Of course, this is just my estimate based on R2 data available.

So I'm probably going to break even on the cost on these trips, which maybe isn't a shock to experienced EV people here. But new EV buyers like myself might be surprised that road tripping in an EV might cost MORE than their current ICE vehicle.

The good news is that with local driving and home charging only, the numbers are much better and shower significant savings. Just doesn't work out as nicely on road trips.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I just got back from a 1200 mile round trip to CT in my XC60 and ran some numbers to see how it would compare to an R2:

My XC60 got 28mpg across 1200 miles which is 43 gallons. Premium in my part of VA was about $4 when I left, and it was $5 in CT. So average out $4.50/gallon x 43 gallons = $193.

Based off recent range tests, I assume the R2 would average 2.75 mi/kWh on this trip, which is 436 kWh across 1200 miles. If I only charged at public chargers at $0.50/kWh, then that's $218. If I factor in fully charging at home in VA before leaving ($0.20/kWh) and charging up in CT before leaving my folks ($0.30/kWh), that does bring it down to something closer to $180.

Of course, this is just my estimate based on R2 data available.

So I'm probably going to break even on the cost on these trips, which maybe isn't a shock to experienced EV people here. But new EV buyers like myself might be surprised that road tripping in an EV might cost MORE than their current ICE vehicle.

The good news is that with local driving and home charging only, the numbers are much better and shower significant savings. Just doesn't work out as nicely on road trips.

This is perfectly good math, but the savings case for EVs has always been charging at home 95%+ of the time and not DCFC. Apt dwellers often ask on here, Reddit, Tesla forums, etc. "should they get an EV if they don't have charging at their apt" and the answer is almost always unequivocally no.

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