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who cares about privacy?

photontorque

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Who cares about privacy?

First, to the extent that one can be a fan of a vehicle that one has never seen in person, I am a fan of the Rivian vehicles. The R1S is, in many ways, the vehicle I have been waiting to own for a long time.

However, Rivian’s approach to privacy is alarming at best.

Rivian collects a lot of data on its vehicle and the owner, see:
https://rivian.com/legal/privacy

I find this privacy policy invasive, and in conjunction with the title, “Rivian is committed to respecting your privacy”, there is a depressingly strong whiff of Orwellian doublespeak. The title would imply the privacy policy describes the many ways that Rivian respects and protects your privacy. Instead, the policy describes all the information they are collecting, and the fact that they will do whatever the heck they want with it. “Respect”, right.

Currently there is no opt out from RIvian’s data collection.

Compare this with Rivian’s peers, other EV-only companies: Telsa and Lucid.

Tesla’s privacy policy is here:
https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy
Tesla says that a lot of data is processed on vehicle, and user consent is required for data sharing.

And Lucid’s here:
https://www.lucidmotors.com/legal#vehicle-data-privacy-policy
Lucid allows users to opt out of data collection at the expense of functionality. That’s fine. The lost functionality is stuff I don’t need anyway, and I appreciate the fact they give owners a choice.

Based on these policy descriptions, I much prefer Tesla and Lucid policies to Rivian’s.

I know data collection is rampant in this day and age through computers and phones. I do what I can to prevent this data collection, and I advocate for policies to put a stop to consumer data collection.

I’m curious why this isn’t a more important topic for other people. Why don’t you care that Rivian will track everywhere you go in the vehicle, how you drive, whether or not you have a passenger, and (given the presence of a microphone and Alexa) listen to everything that goes on in the car, and perhaps most creepily, watch you while you drive? This seems like such a massive invasion of privacy.

I appreciate different people have different perspectives. I also appreciate when as a consumer I get a choice in the matter.

I’d feel better if Rivian at least anonymized the data they collect.

I was all-in on Rivian until they posted their privacy policy, and now they seem like all the other companies that do things that once were considered stalking and be cause for imprisonment. Just because "other companies do it", doesn't mean it's right.

I do like Rivian’s vehicles, I just want them to revise their data collection policy to include an opt out, and/or anonymization.
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KiloV

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Who cares about privacy?

First, to the extent that one can be a fan of a vehicle that one has never seen in person, I am a fan of the Rivian vehicles. The R1S is, in many ways, the vehicle I have been waiting to own for a long time.

However, Rivian’s approach to privacy is alarming at best.

Rivian collects a lot of data on its vehicle and the owner, see:
https://rivian.com/legal/privacy

I find this privacy policy invasive, and in conjunction with the title, “Rivian is committed to respecting your privacy”, there is a depressingly strong whiff of Orwellian doublespeak. The title would imply the privacy policy describes the many ways that Rivian respects and protects your privacy. Instead, the policy describes all the information they are collecting, and the fact that they will do whatever the heck they want with it. “Respect”, right.

Currently there is no opt out from RIvian’s data collection.

Compare this with Rivian’s peers, other EV-only companies: Telsa and Lucid.

Tesla’s privacy policy is here:
https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy
Tesla says that a lot of data is processed on vehicle, and user consent is required for data sharing.

And Lucid’s here:
https://www.lucidmotors.com/legal#vehicle-data-privacy-policy
Lucid allows users to opt out of data collection at the expense of functionality. That’s fine. The lost functionality is stuff I don’t need anyway, and I appreciate the fact they give owners a choice.

Based on these policy descriptions, I much prefer Tesla and Lucid policies to Rivian’s.

I know data collection is rampant in this day and age through computers and phones. I do what I can to prevent this data collection, and I advocate for policies to put a stop to consumer data collection.

I’m curious why this isn’t a more important topic for other people. Why don’t you care that Rivian will track everywhere you go in the vehicle, how you drive, whether or not you have a passenger, and (given the presence of a microphone and Alexa) listen to everything that goes on in the car, and perhaps most creepily, watch you while you drive? This seems like such a massive invasion of privacy.

I appreciate different people have different perspectives. I also appreciate when as a consumer I get a choice in the matter.

I’d feel better if Rivian at least anonymized the data they collect.

I was all-in on Rivian until they posted their privacy policy, and now they seem like all the other companies that do things that once were considered stalking and be cause for imprisonment. Just because "other companies do it", doesn't mean it's right.

I do like Rivian’s vehicles, I just want them to revise their data collection policy to include an opt out, and/or anonymization.
You're not wrong to be concerned about privacy, in general. As you intimated, however, privacy is something of an illusion in the modern world. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Verizon, AT&T, basically every website you visit (they all use cookies)...they all represent significant data mining operations, with you as the "target." For the most part this profiling of you is pretty harmless - they're trying to figure out what you like and would be willing to buy, so that they can target you with appropriate buying opportunities. Rivian (and Tesla, and Lucid) are all doing much the same. They are trying to figure out how to better monetize their relationship with you (although it is also true that Rivian, Tesla and Lucid are trying to use that data to improve their product performance and user experience). Unfortunately, unless you're willing to disconnect from the social fabric, and forego all the good things the Internet brings you, you're going to have to live with some privacy invasion. It's not really practical to be both Internet-connected and fully anonymized. If fully anonymized is your goal, then Rivian is probably not the vehicle for you (nor is Tesla or Lucid, really). I think the most important question to ask yourself is: What data that Rivian collects are in some way harmful or threatening to you, your family or your interests? If the data collection doesn't really represent a threat - if it just creeps you out that people are collecting data about you and analyzing it - then you might want to characterize this problem as a low-impact issue that you can live with, and stop stressing about it. If you perceive it as a real problem, then you're going to have a tough time living in an Internet-connected world. That sucks, but it's true.
 

Tim-in-CA

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Welcome to 1984 … errr I mean 2022. There is no privacy. Everything you do and say is being collected, processed and monitized.
 

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I'm not the type of person that thinks the government, Rivian, my cell carrier, Meta, or Bill Gates care enough to actually watch what I do. I'm not that important and my life isn't that interesting. Adding an R1T that captures my driving habits and in-cab conversations is hardly concerning to me. If it was, I'd throw all of my connected gadgets in a river and walk into the woods somewhere.

I'm a data point, collect my data and use it to make money, whoopie.
 

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kanundrum

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OP If you Care about privacy don't go online unless you're at a library and wipe your prints off a computer after you are done ?.
 

crashmtb

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Is this just a thing you post quarterly or
 

COdogman

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As others have said, we are waaay past the point of no return on maintaining privacy when it comes to connected technology. And these R1 vehicles (and most vehicles post 2015) are just connected devices like our phones, etc. Unless you get rid of all your connected devices, don’t use internet service, credit cards, drive a 20 year old vehicle, never travel by plane, and wear a disguise when you go out of your house, you are being tracked as a data point.

The time to prevent this from happening was 10+ years ago. Even the companies who claim to have more protections are still collecting quite a bit and I don’t know about you but I have always suspected they are doing mostly the same things as the other companies but have lawyers who found more clever ways to write their privacy policies.

I think the best we can hope for at this point is to push these companies to anonymize as much of the data they collect as possible. And we should do that to Rivian as well.
 

Max

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I'm a data point, collect my data and use it to make money, whoopie.
Where do you think that money comes from?

The misconception our parents created in our minds is that we are special so we think what applies to others won't apply to us. The fact is we are all biological robots that are made out of the same stuff and can easily be programmed. Once there is enough data collected and our operating system is mapped out, it will be easy to flash the right thing in front of you in one of your gadgets to get you to do anything like vote a certain way or buy an $80K Rivian even though you have too many cars in great condition in your driveway you rarely use because you are teleworking everyday and your weekend hobby is doing art and crossword puzzles in your living room. Youtube shows you that new shiny toy in your stream and before you know it it is in your driveway. And you KNOW for a fact it was all your decision. I may be projecting here a bit but you get my drift. Giving away data freely is not bad just due to potential for Identity theft or any other kind of illegal activities that won't happen to most of us. It is bad due to those subtle manipulations that do happen to all of us.
 

lostpacket

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I think OP is right to be concerned. Flippant dismissal of privacy's importance is naïve and unhelpful fatalism. There is no "point of no return." There is no worst, there is always just worse.

A lot of you might be very surprised at how your data can be used against you. Ever applied for some form of credit? Applied for a job? Mortgage?

Also remember advertising isnt just about selling products, some of it is used to target political propaganda. Think how shady PR firms could use this to influence just enough of the right people that "clean coal" is the future (exaggerated example). Small nudges of influence can be surprisingly effective when applied at population scale.

If anyone is in CA though, we can get more info about who they are sharing with. Please take a moment to contact them.

California's "Shine the Light" law (Civil Code Section § 1798.83) permits users of our services that are California residents to request certain information regarding our disclosure of personal information to third parties for their direct marketing purposes. To make such a request, please send an email to [email protected].
 

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electruck

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I would at least consider covering the in-cabin video camera when "car camping". ;)
 

Max

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I would at least consider covering the in-cabin video camera when "car camping". ;)
I miss the days I had a reason to cover the camera. Now the Amazonian watching me is the one covering his screen.
 

Tim-in-CA

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Where do you think that money comes from?

The misconception our parents created in our minds is that we are special so we think what applies to others won't apply to us. The fact is we are all biological robots that are made out of the same stuff and can easily be programmed. Once there is enough data collected and our operating system is mapped out, it will be easy to flash the right thing in front of you in one of your gadgets to get you to do anything like vote a certain way or buy an $80K Rivian even though you have too many cars in great condition in your driveway you rarely use because you are teleworking everyday and your weekend hobby is doing art and crossword puzzles in your living room. Youtube shows you that new shiny toy in your stream and before you know it it is in your driveway. And you KNOW for a fact it was all your decision. I may be projecting here a bit but you get my drift. Giving away data freely is not bad just due to potential for Identity theft or any other kind of illegal activities that won't happen to most of us. It is bad due to those subtle manipulations that do happen to all of us.
Ok. You must be spying on me on one of my many internet connected cameras. This is practically my autobiography! Lol!
 
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Tim-in-CA

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I think OP is right to be concerned. Flippant dismissal of privacy's importance is naïve and unhelpful fatalism. There is no "point of no return." There is no worst, there is always just worse.

A lot of you might be very surprised at how your data can be used against you. Ever applied for some form of credit? Applied for a job? Mortgage?

Also remember advertising isnt just about selling products, some of it is used to target political propaganda. Think how shady PR firms could use this to influence just enough of the right people that "clean coal" is the future (exaggerated example). Small nudges of influence can be surprisingly effective when applied at population scale.

If anyone is in CA though, we can get more info about who they are sharing with. Please take a moment to contact them.
I’m hoping that my posts improve my Social Score!

See Black Mirror episode Nosedive
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