Who’s using EVgo and why - unreasonably expensive

[ksurfier]

Here’s a look at charging cost for 75 kWh (20” OEM tires):

Home - $11.25 (73.3 mpge)
Member T (12 am) - $15 (55 mpge)
Member T (pm) - $30.00 (27.5 mpge)
Tesla (12 am) - $19.50 (42.3 mpge)
Tesla (pm) - $40.50 (20.4 mpge)
EA - $42.00 (19.6 mpge)
EVgo - $52.50 (15.7 mpge)

$13 for monthly Tesla membership is definitely worth it if you plan to charge at least 200 miles per month at Tesla (or just get it when you need it)….

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[feifan]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Bluedot yet (disclaimer: that's my referral link). They're offering 30¢/kWh at EVGo stations and 20% in-app cash back on charging (which you can redeem for additional charging, so the math actually works out to ~25%).

Admittedly, I've seen but haven't used the in-app EVGo integration yet, although I've very much used and redeemed the cash back. I have no idea how that's sustainable for them, but I'm happy to get those rates while it lasts.

I have no affiliation, just a mostly*-happy user
(*the app's occasionally buggy)

 

[connoisseurr]

I’ve tried 3 different EVgo stations in the past 2 weeks. Apparently my R1T does not like them. Every single station left me with the error below, regardless if I was starting a charge session from the app, or tapping a card at the terminal.

 

[CharonPDX]

In summary, EV(dont)GO...

Don’t go to the 50kW stations. The 150kW+ stations tend to be far better than EA.

 

[VSG]

Rivian (and other automakers) needs to offer to these station operators a way to feed real-time pricing and availability data to the nav screen. If they provide it, they can get a chance to have priority on the routing (as long as they are cheapest, fastest, and available when the system routes you to the next stop). Don't provide it, they get a big question mark on the screen for pricing and the black dot of unknown availability.

The surprise billing on chargers is getting as bad as going to the emergency room for "in-network" only to discover a bunch of random ripoff uncharges and surprises. But really, who cares? Lectron adapter is on its way. EVGo is for sad people who don't drive Rivians or Fords or Teslas. Lol

Yes, absolutely. We are in need of standardization here, to make sure this sort of information is openly and freely available to the public.

If you look at PlugShare, you can see that some charging networks publish their availability status free to the public and some don't.

ChargePoint shows charger availability.
EVGo shows charger availability.
Blink Shows charger availability.
Flo shows charger availability.

Electrify America doesn't.
Tesla doesn't.
RAN doesn't (in PlugShare)

While it's clear that EA, Tesla, and RAN *do* have an API for availability (this is for instance what is used by the EA, Tesla, and Rivian apps respectively), this API is not available to the public, so tools like PlugShare don't use it.

It would be great if all these networks stopped playing games trying to monetize their availability and cost data, and just open source their API and worried instead about competing on price and availability.

Rivian could help lead the way here. When Rivian opens up the RAN, the API for pricing and availability should be opened at the same time.

BTW, ABRP has been trying to incorporate availability and pricing and charger ratings since the fall. That is one of the reasons Rivian bought ABRP last year - to gather and leverage this data for use in the Rivian navigation system. So far the integration with ABRP has been slow going, but it's getting there bit by bit.

 

[TexasBob]

@VSG I agree and it is one of the (many) stupid things the DOT missed when setting up the EV station grants. Posting the information in a standard form on a publicly available web site that can be freely integrated into navigation apps should have been an absolute requirement for federal funding. They should make that rule change now!

That, along with minimum 99% up time over first 5 years to get full grant, minimum 250 kw charging speed, 800V capable, NACS and CCS required, would all be sensible changes to the program. They specced the system to meet the desires of bad charging network operators and hobbyist station developers. They need to retool this program. The data availability requirement would be a huge step forward.

 

[Riviaenz]

I had a Tesla charger only give me 34kw, had to move to another charger, so just like the EA experience. I have actually never had an EVGO charger give me a very low power output, but I have seen broken units.

I think the only advantage Tesla has is that they have the largest network of high speed chargers. I had been planning for a road trip while towing and until recently it looked like it was possible using EA and some alternate chargers (being sure to avoid EVgo). Since Tesla joined the Rivian nav mix it looks like they add 2 sites to a long stretch that would have been doable and now adds buffer.

As for problems, it seems like they not really much better than any of the alternatives in terms of uptime or availability. Even based on the latest “EV race” by the Out of Spec guys highlights how Tesla SC aren’t really the paragons of reliability they’ve been cited as being, the difference is they have something that the other network don’t have, fanboys.

If anything, with the advent of non-Tesla joining their previously walled garden, it wouldn’t surprise me if that patina of reliability starts wearing off with fanboys at the ready to blame non-Tesla. But the Cybertruck the out of spec guys was a Tesla and it also saw poor charging speeds and not once. And on prior races they’ve sometimes glossed over other slow charging Tesla SC experiences.

 

[VSG]

I think the only advantage Tesla has is that they have the largest network of high speed chargers. I had been planning for a road trip while towing and until recently it looked like it was possible using EA and some alternate chargers (being sure to avoid EVgo). Since Tesla joined the Rivian nav mix it looks like they add 2 sites to a long stretch that would have been doable and now adds buffer.

As for problems, it seems like they not really much better than any of the alternatives in terms of uptime or availability. Even based on the latest “EV race” by the Out of Spec guys highlights how Tesla SC aren’t really the paragons of reliability they’ve been cited as being, the difference is they have something that the other network don’t have, fanboys.

If anything, with the advent of non-Tesla joining their previously walled garden, it wouldn’t surprise me if that patina of reliability starts wearing off with fanboys at the ready to blame non-Tesla. But the Cybertruck the out of spec guys was a Tesla and it also saw poor charging speeds and not once. And on prior races they’ve sometimes glossed over other slow charging Tesla SC experiences.

A lot of good points.

I think there is no question that the Tesla chargers are more reliable than most. No question.

And I think that there is no question that a lot of the problems with the CCS network stem from it having to cope with a huge variety of vehicles; the Tesla network only had to charge a very specific subset of Tesla vehicles that were all designed the same with the same charging hardware and software and charge port location, and thus were able to report much better than normal availability and speed because of this.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to the fact that the stations can't be utilized 100% because every vehicle has a different charge port location.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to the fact that to accommodate all different types of vehicles you have to have long cables, and long cables have cooling problems and are more likely to be damaged.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to consumers not being aware of the capabilities of their vehicles, and not understanding charging curves, etc.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to problems with authorizing payments from the general public.

All these things lead to lower ratings for EA etc.

Tesla has until now operated within a closed system where all the variables were controlled by Tesla.

Now that Tesla has opened up their superchargers to all types of vehicles, Tesla superchargers will suffer from these types of problems which previously didn't affect them. And these superchargers will see a drop in availability and performance ratings. Tesla superchargers will no longer have maximum utilization, because the variability in charge port locations will mean not all stalls can be occupied. Just like with EA etc. locations. Tesla superchargers will now have to deal with Bolt users who sit there for hours going to 100%. Just like EA etc. locations. Tesla Superchargers will now have to deal with people using different apps to pay for their charge, or even physical credit cards to pay for their charge. Just like EA etc.

So while opening up Tesla superchargers is very appreciated and very welcome, it will not necessarily help in many locations (e.g. Wyoming where NO Tesla superchargers are being opened) and will not necessarily offer more reliable or more available chargers, and will not necessarily offer cheaper charging options.

The only thing we can count on is that there will be MORE charger options is SOME locations. Which is a good thing.

In short, opening the Tesla network it going to help in general, but for many people it is not going to be the cure-all that has been promised (or at least implied).

 

[azbill]

A lot of good points.

I think there is no question that the Tesla chargers are more reliable than most. No question.

And I think that there is no question that a lot of the problems with the CCS network stem from it having to cope with a huge variety of vehicles; the Tesla network only had to charge a very specific subset of Tesla vehicles that were all designed the same with the same charging hardware and software and charge port location, and thus were able to report much better than normal availability and speed because of this.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to the fact that the stations can't be utilized 100% because every vehicle has a different charge port location.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to the fact that to accommodate all different types of vehicles you have to have long cables, and long cables have cooling problems and are more likely to be damaged.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to consumers not being aware of the capabilities of their vehicles, and not understanding charging curves, etc.

Some of the problems with EA etc. are due to problems with authorizing payments from the general public.

All these things lead to lower ratings for EA etc.

Tesla has until now operated within a closed system where all the variables were controlled by Tesla.

Now that Tesla has opened up their superchargers to all types of vehicles, Tesla superchargers will suffer from these types of problems which previously didn't affect them. And these superchargers will see a drop in availability and performance ratings. Tesla superchargers will no longer have maximum utilization, because the variability in charge port locations will mean not all stalls can be occupied. Just like with EA etc. locations. Tesla superchargers will now have to deal with Bolt users who sit there for hours going to 100%. Just like EA etc. locations. Tesla Superchargers will now have to deal with people using different apps to pay for their charge, or even physical credit cards to pay for their charge. Just like EA etc.

So while opening up Tesla superchargers is very appreciated and very welcome, it will not necessarily help in many locations (e.g. Wyoming where NO Tesla superchargers are being opened) and will not necessarily offer more reliable or more available chargers, and will not necessarily offer cheaper charging options.

The only thing we can count on is that there will be MORE charger options is SOME locations. Which is a good thing.

In short, opening the Tesla network it going to help in general, but for many people it is not going to be the cure-all that has been promised (or at least implied).

But Tesla has one big advantage over the others, and that is the number of chargers per site. Minimum is typically 8, but there are very big sites, such as Quartzsite AZ having 120 (84 new and 36 old ones) and Dateland AZ having 40. Most new installations are a minimum of 16.

 

[VSG]

Not around here, or anyplace within a thousand miles of here ...

 

[Riviaenz]

Car and Driver even called them out as the most expensive on a recent trip with their long term R1T drive from their HQ in Michigan to Daytona International for the Rolex 24. Other than its superlative high cost it seems unremarkable compared to others they note along their 1100mile route, like the RAN stops which were noteworthy for their speed/performance and a few EA stops. Both of which were far less costly than EVgo.

This EVgo charger in Ohio was the most expensive of the trip, setting us back $77.86, which works out to nearly 73 cents per kilowatt-hour. That's far more expensive than the usual 50 cents per kilowatt-hour we pay at the Electrify America DC fast-charger closest to our office.

They had a second EVgo experience and only note its cost was $42.51 for a 25min stop to 60% which sounds like it was also close to $0.73/kWhr (it seems like it might have been more - they were getting to DCFC with about 20% charge - but they claimed the first EVgo stop at $0.73/kWhr was the most expensive of the whole trip).

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45618489/2023-rivian-r1t-adventure-reliability-maintenance/

 

[defcon888]

As with any public charger.... it's only expensive until you need it!

 

[zefram47]

Just finished another 2000 mile road trip to see the eclipse this past week. Out of 16 public charging stops, I used EVgo 6 times and they were all trouble-free and simple with Autocharge+ enabled. I thought I was being smart and got the EVgo Plus plan to get 20% off my charging and no session fee just for the trip, but imagine my surprise when the Pilot / Flying J locations didn't get plan pricing and were obscenely expensive. The 2 different Pilot / Flying J stations I stopped at were $0.61-0.65/kWh before taxes...absolutely ridiculous. I did confirm with EVgo support that the contract they have with Pilot / Flying J allows those locations to set their own pricing and EVgo plans do not work....I really wish they'd advertise that fact more clearly. That said, I'd still likely stop because all the usual truck stop amenities are right there and I don't have to make extra stops to use a bathroom, get food, or clean the windshield. The way you shrink the time delta between ICE and EV travel is to do all of the stuff you would normally do while the vehicle is actually charging vs separate stops. I also wound up using EA 4x, ChargePoint 1x, Rivian RAN 2x, EV Connect 2x, and a free Volta L2 station at a Six Flags. Average price paid over the course of the trip was $0.516/kWh and an effective $0.264/mi and 1.84 mi/kWh.

The absolute cheapest (other than free) charging I encountered was the RAN station in Hays, KS which came out to $0.14/kWh because it was charged by the minute and the only chargers I hit on this trip that did vs per kWh. That made those two stops comparable to my home charging rate.

 

[Riviaenz]

Just finished another 2000 mile road trip to see the eclipse this past week. Out of 16 public charging stops, I used EVgo 6 times and they were all trouble-free and simple with Autocharge+ enabled. I thought I was being smart and got the EVgo Plus plan to get 20% off my charging and no session fee just for the trip, but imagine my surprise when the Pilot / Flying J locations didn't get plan pricing and were obscenely expensive. The 2 different Pilot / Flying J stations I stopped at were $0.61-0.65/kWh before taxes...absolutely ridiculous. I did confirm with EVgo support that the contract they have with Pilot / Flying J allows those locations to set their own pricing and EVgo plans do not work....I really wish they'd advertise that fact more clearly. That said, I'd still likely stop because all the usual truck stop amenities are right there and I don't have to make extra stops to use a bathroom, get food, or clean the windshield. The way you shrink the time delta between ICE and EV travel is to do all of the stuff you would normally do while the vehicle is actually charging vs separate stops. I also wound up using EA 4x, ChargePoint 1x, Rivian RAN 2x, EV Connect 2x, and a free Volta L2 station at a Six Flags. Average price paid over the course of the trip was $0.516/kWh and an effective $0.264/mi and 1.84 mi/kWh.

The absolute cheapest (other than free) charging I encountered was the RAN station in Hays, KS which came out to $0.14/kWh because it was charged by the minute and the only chargers I hit on this trip that did vs per kWh. That made those two stops comparable to my home charging rate.

That’s exactly the problem too that I had encountered with my first and only EVgo session. Their dispenser wasn’t showing rates or fees and I was surprised by the >$1.22/kWhr rate + fees (which they double dipped on in my case when their dispenser hiccuped during the session. It wasn’t until the end of the second session here I controlled the stop and could quickly get out and see the tally that I realized I was taken. And it was a regular EVgo at a strip mall next to a bank’s parking lot.

 

[Riviaenz]

Just finished another 2000 mile road trip to see the eclipse this past week. Out of 16 public charging stops, I used EVgo 6 times and they were all trouble-free and simple with Autocharge+ enabled. I thought I was being smart and got the EVgo Plus plan to get 20% off my charging and no session fee just for the trip, but imagine my surprise when the Pilot / Flying J locations didn't get plan pricing and were obscenely expensive. The 2 different Pilot / Flying J stations I stopped at were $0.61-0.65/kWh before taxes...absolutely ridiculous. I did confirm with EVgo support that the contract they have with Pilot / Flying J allows those locations to set their own pricing and EVgo plans do not work....I really wish they'd advertise that fact more clearly. That said, I'd still likely stop because all the usual truck stop amenities are right there and I don't have to make extra stops to use a bathroom, get food, or clean the windshield. The way you shrink the time delta between ICE and EV travel is to do all of the stuff you would normally do while the vehicle is actually charging vs separate stops. I also wound up using EA 4x, ChargePoint 1x, Rivian RAN 2x, EV Connect 2x, and a free Volta L2 station at a Six Flags. Average price paid over the course of the trip was $0.516/kWh and an effective $0.264/mi and 1.84 mi/kWh.

The absolute cheapest (other than free) charging I encountered was the RAN station in Hays, KS which came out to $0.14/kWh because it was charged by the minute and the only chargers I hit on this trip that did vs per kWh. That made those two stops comparable to my home charging rate.

That’s exactly the problem too that I had encountered with my first and only EVgo session. Their dispenser wasn’t showing rates or fees and I was surprised by the >$1.22/kWhr rate + fees (which they double dipped on in my case when their dispenser hiccuped during the session. It wasn’t until the end of the second session here I controlled the stop and could quickly get out and see the tally that I realized I was taken. And it was a regular EVgo at a strip mall next to a bank’s parking lot.

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