What would you do if price increased?

CommodoreAmiga

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I'd argue that the CX 5 is significantly less boring (and much better looking) than it's peer group. When we made the purchase, I did a pretty in depth comparison between the CX-5, the Q5, and the XC-60 and the CX-5 was the clear winner based on what my wife and I needed. It checked every box for $10k less than the Audi and Volvo, even fully optioned out. That said, our CX-5 fully optioned out cost about half of what the R1S will end up costing.
The CX-5 is NOT in the same group as the Q5 or XC60. The CX-5 is a direct competitor to the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. It's a fine vehicle, but it's a mainstream product. Not premium. Certainly not luxury.

The CX-5 may have been the best fit for you and your wife -- I'm not trying to argue otherwise. But when it comes to power, materials quality, and handling dynamics the CX-5 is not on the same level as Audi/Volvo (or Mercedes/Lexus for that matter).
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kurtlikevonnegut

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The CX-5 is NOT in the same group as the Q5 or XC60. The CX-5 is a direct competitor to the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. It's a fine vehicle, but it's a mainstream product. Not premium. Certainly not luxury.

The CX-5 may have been the best fit for you and your wife -- I'm not trying to argue otherwise. But when it comes to power, materials quality, and handling dynamics the CX-5 is not on the same level as Audi/Volvo (or Mercedes/Lexus for that matter).
I don't think it is. My statement may have been misleading. I said that the CX-5 is more exciting and better looking than it's peer group, referring to the RAV4, CR-V, Tuscon crowd. In terms of buying decisions, I had originally included the CX-5 as a fall guy when looking at the Q5 and XC-60 fully expecting to convince myself the Q5 was the answer. The CX-5 was able to punch above it's weight class though and surprised me. It's not a peer of the others, but it came close enough to make justifying the extra $10k impossible for me.
 

Forager1

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When I preordered it was under the guise that my family would go down to 1 car. Right now that doesn’t look possible, but it might work out in 6-18 months. I’m hoping my preorder “locks” in our current price and production ramp up takes long enough that we don’t have to decide until fall 2022 or summer 2023. If pricing was locked in now, I may get enough of a cost of living bump in the next couple years to cover the monthly payment (hooray Union CPI negotiation and fixed expenses).

As it is, the cost is at the far end of my comfort level and the only way to justify it was with the tax credit and minimizing other car expenses. Any change in pricing or tax credit would push this out of contention for my family.
 

KingofThorns

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To some extent yes, although I'd argue that the CX 5 is significantly less boring (and much better looking) than it's peer group. When we made the purchase, I did a pretty in depth comparison between the CX-5, the Q5, and the XC-60 and the CX-5 was the clear winner based on what my wife and I needed. It checked every box for $10k less than the Audi and Volvo, even fully optioned out. That said, our CX-5 fully optioned out cost about half of what the R1S will end up costing.

I recently put together a 5/7/10 year cost analysis for the R1S compared with other options (Highlander, Pilot, Atlas, CX-9, Q7) factoring in fuel cost and maintenance over the life of the vehicle. Even with the tax credit, 5/7/10 year cost of ownership for the R1S was still thousands of dollars more than the fully optioned version of everything other than the Q7. Take away the tax credit and that's a very tough pill to swallow.
I was mostly kidding. I looked at the RX, Highlander, and MDX before getting the CX-5. It was by the best bang for the buck. Granted, it is a class size smaller than the other vehicles, but it’s only me so I really don’t actually need something bigger.

How did you estimate the repair costs for the Rivian when doing your cost analysis figures?
 

kurtlikevonnegut

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I was mostly kidding. I looked at the RX, Highlander, and MDX before getting the CX-5. It was by the best bang for the buck. Granted, it is a class size smaller than the other vehicles, but it’s only me so I really don’t actually need something bigger.

How did you estimate the repair costs for the Rivian when doing your cost analysis figures?
I didn't really account for "repairs" with the Rivian because its impossible to forecast and I think it's a safe assumption that a startup trying to get into a new market is going to bend over backwards to cover legitimate repairs. For "maintenance" I used a blanket $1,000 for 5 years, $1,500 for 7 years and $2,000 for 10 years to account for oil changes and a $0 for the Rivian since the only maintenance to speak of would be brakes and that likely won't need to be touched in 5 years of driving due to Regen.

For fuel I used 18,000 miles per year across the board with $3.00 per gallon and $.12 per kWh, which represents current costs for both.
 

cc84

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What would you do if price increased?

P
ure speculation again: No truth, or facts involved. Thinking out loud.

I don't recall any recent communication dealing with deliveries, to the General Public, so I ponder. Why is this? If Rivian increased their price now, would that be bad for their IPO, or good? I would think the preorder holders wouldn't be too excited to pay more, or at least I wouldn't, but would the investors see it as positive?

If raising prices now would affect their IPO negatively, could Rivian be waiting until after the IPO to raise their prices, then start deliveries? I understand they are in production now, but are they shipping? Even if they increase their prices, many will absorb the cost and buy anyway. What they're producing now will be sold, regardless of a price increase, I suspect.

It's getting close to three years when their pricing was introduced. I have no idea, but isn't there usually a price increase during a three-year span, on most vehicles? Perhaps Rivian had a cushion built in to hold their pricing steady.

I recall in one thread, where the poster commented the plan all along was to deliver to Employees first. The General Public would get theirs starting in December. Something along those lines. I believe the poster was given this information by someone supposedly connected to Rivian.

Could it be they want to get the IPO out of the way first, so they can increase prices, then deliver? Or, does Rivian have problems they're working on, that could affect the IPO negatively, if they're given bad customer reviews?

Best yet, maybe Rivian is currently making deliveries to the GP, the price is holding steady, all while the GP LE preorder holders prefer to remain anonymous. All is good?
 

Diddy123

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It's getting close to three years when their pricing was introduced. I have no idea, but isn't there usually a price increase during a three-year span, on most vehicles? Perhaps Rivian had a cushion built in to hold their pricing steady.
I would argue that they have effectively raised the price over the past 3 years by significantly reducing promised features and functions, while keeping the price relatively consistent.

The auto-dimming glass in the roof which was supposed to be included in all vehicles is worth many thousands on its own. Lidar, power 180 tailgate, etc. all are no longer included. There’s quite the long list somewhere. Hell, they even downgraded the frunk in fit and finish and removed the nice grocery hooks.

They’ve quietly removed thousands in value while keeping the price mostly unchanged.

If they were to raise the price on top of all of the devaluation, I’d be out in a heartbeat.

As it is now, I think the price/value is fair.
 
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bd5400

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I don't recall any recent communication dealing with deliveries, to the General Public, so I ponder. Why is this?
It has been mentioned elsewhere I believe, but one of the reasons for a lack of communication on deliveries could be due to the SEC mandated quiet period ahead of the IPO. Now that they’ve filed for the IPO the company and its executives aren’t allowed to make announcements or communications that could be considered forecasts or affect the value of the company. Customer delivery information could be considered information that could impact the value of the IPO so maybe that’s why they have been quiet. Information is limited to what is in the S-1 filing.

Keep in mind that I am by no means an IPO expert. I just remember an article that was posted on the forum saying that RJ referenced the quiet period and I looked further into what that is.
 

Trandall

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I didn't really account for "repairs" with the Rivian because its impossible to forecast and I think it's a safe assumption that a startup trying to get into a new market is going to bend over backwards to cover legitimate repairs. For "maintenance" I used a blanket $1,000 for 5 years, $1,500 for 7 years and $2,000 for 10 years to account for oil changes and a $0 for the Rivian since the only maintenance to speak of would be brakes and that likely won't need to be touched in 5 years of driving due to Regen.

For fuel I used 18,000 miles per year across the board with $3.00 per gallon and $.12 per kWh, which represents current costs for both.
I'm anticipating my R1T eats tires at twice the rate as my Subaru Ascent and the required tires being more expensive as well. To be honest the increase in tire cost may exceed that of brake pads and oil changes. My home energy is only 5.5 cents per KWH so I will see a huge fuel savings at 18K miles per year.
 
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TessP100D

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I would argue that they have effectively raised the price over the past 3 years by significantly reducing promised features and functions, while keeping the price relatively consistent.

The auto-dimming glass in the roof which was supposed to be included in all vehicles is worth many thousands on its own. Lidar, power 180 tailgate, etc. all are no longer included. There’s quite the long list somewhere. Hell, they even downgraded the frunk in fit and finish and removed the nice grocery hooks.

They’ve quietly removed thousands in value while keeping the price mostly unchanged.

If they were to raise the price on top of all of the devaluation, I’d be out in a heartbeat.

As it is now, I think the price/value is fair.
Well said.
 

TessP100D

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It they do raise the price before I get my Max Pack Rivian in the spring, and since we are already talking $85K, it could make me look at the Lightning, or, wait out my order on the Cybertruck. Can I get the range of the Cybertruck, the features of the Rivian, and the price of the Lightning?
New CyberTruck advertising at Tesla…. She Gone.
 

cc84

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....Customer delivery information could be considered information that could impact the value of the IPO so maybe that’s why they have been quiet. Information is limited to what is in the S-1 filing.....
A valid and good point. However, it's amazing to me how the GP has kept so quiet about delivery, if any have been made. I don't know anything about Tesla, but I wonder if they made any deliveries prior and during their IPO? Wondering out loud. Maybe Rivian doesn't have any delivery information to give?

I would argue that they have effectively raised the price over the past 3 years by significantly reducing promised features and functions, while keeping the price relatively consistent.....
A very good point to not raise prices, but you think they might want just a little more? Maybe another thousand, or two? There are many that will pay it. Not me, but many will.

If not a pending price increase, then what is the reason for Rivian's silence on deliveries to the GP and why the GP all want to remain anonymous, if indeed there have been deliveries? Does the S-1 filing exempt Rivian from further communication on deliveries, until the IPO goes through? When will the IPO be completed? Can they even make deliveries while in the IPO phase? If they can, someone has to be told about their upcoming delivery. All good comments in your quotes. Thanks.
 
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Diddy123

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Let's also not forget that they expect to get an extra $15,000 out of each of us in subscription costs over the life of the vehicle. That's their estimate, not mine.

I'd add that to my "they've raised the price without raising the price" argument.
 

cc84

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Let's also not forget that they expect to get an extra $15,000 out of each of us in subscription costs over the life of the vehicle. That's their estimate, not mine.

I'd add that to my "they've raised the price without raising the price" argument.
That's true. I forgot about that. However, 😂 Not from me they won't. Someone else will need to pick up my share. If it requires subscriptions to keep it running, then I need to go another direction.

I can't get any answers from them about Membership, or optional plans, etc. All I can say, is if it drives the way it should, without any additional costs, then I'll buy, otherwise I won't.
 

Aroohoo

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I don't know anything about Tesla, but I wonder if they made any deliveries prior and during their IPO? Wondering out loud.
Tesla had the roadster under it's belt and the model s was just starting to roll off the production line in 2013 when it IPOed.

Two very different companies, Rivian and Tesla.
 
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