Rivian Charging Effectiveness and Range

[kevint]

Hi

Currently have an Audi Etron , and an 2011 Lexus LX570 with LC rims , for off road, towing an Airstream etc , and car camping. Combined , they are a great combo. The Etron does well on most road trips, but doesn't have the range to make it to some of the more out of the way spots. (Live in Western Colorado , go down to Southern NM , southern AZ in the winter sometimes).

The Etron summer range seems to be about 250 .. and charging is great, usually 90 percent in 30 minutes . However, it doesn't have the range for say a camping trip near say Silver city, going through all the Navajo land, without taking some route that adds hours.

I have both the R1T and R1S on reserve, but am leaning R1S , since I can sleep in that back fairly well. The R1S seems to be the logical next generation of the Land Cruiser / LX 570. However, I do know towing a 25 ft airstream on any road trip will be much, much slower to go any distance.

As I have been getting further into looking at the Rivian , I would build, I am starting to have concerns if it is the right choice currently vs the Etron / LX Combo and the main reason is charging speed and curve. It seems the Rivian, does charge faster at max speed than the Etron, but its more like 40 minutes to get to 70 percent , and after 70 percent is slows way down much slower than the ETron. Why this is giving me pause, is 70 percent, is really only like what 200 -225 of range ? It would be upped by going large pack to 260 -280 ? So for said, road trip, while I would have the "range capacity" to go through all the Navajo land from western Co, it still doesn't seem efficient in that I would likely have to charge to 90 or 100 percent , which would leave me , according to the charging curve , needing to charge for 1.5 hours to get my 300 plus range .. unless I had the Max pack , then I would be faster to 260 -280 .. (as long as I don't have AT tires , which would be hard due to my love for being off the beaten path).

The range coupled with, that I know towing isnt going to be fast, and that technically the LX is still probably the better off roader have me thinking maybe I should stick with what I have ? If the Rivian charging curve was flatter to 85 percent or so , I could see it making sense for car camping at least, and being a bit better for towing. However, for towing , anywhere near efficiently , I feel you need to be able to charge at 250 fairly flat ...

Thoughts ?

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[racekarl]

The e-tron's charging curve is really hard to beat - there are not many EVs out that can fast charge the way it can (especially with it being a 400v system). While it may be possible that as Rivian gathers more data about the pack performance that they will unlock a little more charging speed, I don't know that I would count on it. It seems that the Rivian has some thermal issues that may be hardware limited (in the munro teardown it looked to this layman like there could be some limitations to how much heat can be moved around the double-stacked battery)

 

[evguy]

I think you're right to be concerned about your use case. For an EV to be a good substitute for long-range towing, I think it needs 500+ miles of range with 800v architecture.

 

[electruck]

Why this is giving me pause, is 70 percent, is really only like what 200 -225 of range?

You need to figure you're going to lose almost half your range when towing, so closer to 100-150 or so miles on a charge.

 

[stynes]

Charging from 20-80% requires 81kw. At a 350kw charger, it peaks around 220 and from 20-80 averages roughly 160 or so. That's 30 minutes. Depending on conditions, with towing being far less efficient, you might average ~2mi/kw so 81wk would carry you 162mi. Or 162mi = 30 minutes of charging. 5.4miles/minute spent charging. The higher your efficiency the more miles/minute. The lower your efficiency... Ditto for charging speed. Slower chargers, whether just lacking the top end charging speed or slowing due to heat or capacity, has a similar impact.

 

[kevint]

Yes I figure Towing won't be great until 800 Volt and nearer 500 miles capacity . Towing isnt that big of a deal to me, but it is certainly some , and it can't make long days with a gasser taking 3 days ..in an EV. I also think a 30 minutes charge is pretty reasonable, to get 3 hours of charging, but its really hard to plan a perfect 20 -80 percent on a 350KW .. especially in the more remote areas. However, 330 range or so , does not feel like a usable 330 if it takes near an hour to get the last 30 percent. Of course not an issue, on a home charger, but on public certainly is.

It does seem, that buying the MAX pack, just to get increased speed getting to a bit over 300 miles, could help a lot, but also feels like an excessive way to get it.

 

[MoreTrout]

Don't forget to knock off another 10-30% of range with cold temperatures. I usually will get 1.9-2.0 mi/kWh on a 190 mile trip I do often with temps in the 20s-30s. Was getting 2.25-2.4 last summer and fall.

A few days ago I charged on a 150 kW EA charger. Both 350 kW units were occupied by vehicles that couldn't even accept more than 150 kW. We were stopping for lunch and to pick up groceries, so I didn't have a charge target, I just planned to let it charge until we were done. Peaked around 157 kW and stayed there until the planned taper just after 50%. Started at 10% and it ended up being a few minutes over 1 hr and it got to 90%. Added 108 kWh and I didn't note how much of that went to battery temps/accessories, but previously it has usually been around 1%. I have stopped at that station several times now and usually stay 20-45 minutes. Of course it depends on starting SOC, but I'll usually add ~90-100 miles in 20 minutes and get to 85% by 45-50 minutes. I try to leave home ballparking 15-30% SOC by the time I get there.

 

[Dark-Fx]

A few days ago I charged on a 150 kW EA charger. Both 350 kW units were occupied by vehicles that couldn't even accept more than 150 kW. We were stopping for lunch and to pick up groceries, so I didn't have a charge target, I just planned to let it charge until we were done. Peaked around 157 kW and stayed there until the planned taper just after 50%. Started at 10% and it ended up being a few minutes over 1 hr and it got to 90%. Added 108 kWh and I didn't note how much of that went to battery temps/accessories, but previously it has usually been around 1%. I have stopped at that station several times now and usually stay 20-45 minutes. Of course it depends on starting SOC, but I'll usually add ~90-100 miles in 20 minutes and get to 85% by 45-50 minutes. I try to leave home ballparking 15-30% SOC by the time I get there.

Because of the thermal throttling in the Rivian system when you're getting the full 200+kW, your charge speeds to 85% are pretty close to the same. If you only charge until 70% or so then the faster stations are definitely quicker.

 

[Indy avocado]

Because of the thermal throttling in the Rivian system when you're getting the full 200+kW, your charge speeds to 85% are pretty close to the same. If you only charge until 70% or so then the faster stations are definitely quicker.

The difference between a perfect 350kw, 500A capable charging session and a 150kw, 350A capable charging session is about 3-4 minutes from 0% to 60%. It's nice, but not the end of the world to me.

The annoying part is the sub-50kw crawl up above 80% for those few times I need every drop of range.

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