Rivian Amazon Van starts deliveries making lots of noise

[Gshenderson]

So how do we protect all the idiots who walk around with iPods or headphones on all the time? ?‍

I understand the rationale here, but still not a fan. Mine will get disabled one way or another.

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[LoneStar]

How about a playlist of audible sound selections on the Control Panel... including this one

 

[electruck]

So how do we protect all the idiots who walk around with iPods or headphones on all the time? ?‍

I understand the rationale here, but still not a fan. Mine will get disabled one way or another.

Sighted folks wearing headphones at least still have the use of their eyes so they are capable of looking before stepping into the path of a vehicle. A blind person obviously does not have this ability. Things get pretty challenging when you can neither see nor hear an oncoming vehicle. My challenge to you is to attempt to cross the street while blindfolded and wearing headphones playing loud music.....

Hopefully it is obvious that my "challenges" are rhetorical in nature and meant to get people thinking. Please do not actually attempt these challenges....

 

[timesinks]

I understand the rationale here, but still not a fan. Mine will get disabled one way or another.

I doubt I'm going to change any minds about this. But do consider that if you were to hit a pedestrian, and illegally disabling safety equipment in your vehicle was a contributing cause (Park City? So Utah Code 41-6a-1631-1b), you could be facing severe charges.

But some people are going to black out their taillights and disable their sound generators. It's amazing to me how people will risk peoples' lives in the name of aesthetics.

 

[thrill]

I doubt I'm going to change any minds about this. But do consider that if you were to hit a pedestrian, and illegally disabling safety equipment in your vehicle was a contributing cause (Park City? So Utah Code 41-6a-1631-1b), you could be facing severe charges.

But some people are going to black out their taillights and disable their sound generators. It's amazing to me how people will risk peoples' lives in the name of aesthetics.

The sound of tires on gravel is something everyone recognizes. Applying and aiming that with just enough volume to sound like tires at 30kph when the camera detects a pedestrian is a smart idea. Instead with our half-measure legislation (nothing new there) and we're going to get a world of downloadable noise pollution.

 

[azbill]

I just pulled the fuse for the pedestrian sound on my Chevy Bolt...hoping to do the same on the Riv.

What year is your Bolt? Mine is a 2017 and makes hardly any noise.

 

[DucRider]

Instead with our half-measure legislation (nothing new there) and we're going to get a world of downloadable noise pollution.

The required noise is very specific and downloads will not be an (OEM) option.

A couple of examples:

S5.1.1.1 For detection, the vehicle must emit a sound having at least the A-weighted sound pressure level according to Table 1 in each of four non-adjacent bands spanning no fewer than 9 of the 13 bands from 315 to 5000 Hz.

S5.2.1 When tested according to the test procedure in S7.1 the vehicle must emit a sound measured at the microphone on the line CC' having at least two non-adjacent octave bands from 315 to 3150 Hz each having at least the A-weighted sound pressure level, indicated in the “Minimum in Each Band” column in Table 6 for the “Stationary up to but not including 10 km/h” condition. The two bands used to meet the two-band minimum requirements must also meet the Band Sum as specified in Table 6.

 

[C.R. Rivian]

I have a 2019 Kia Niro EV. The sound is not obnoxious and seems loud enough to get people's attention in parking lots. At least that's my experience. Lots of people with the 2020 model, however, say that the sound is way too loud and have done a lot with kill switches. Hoping the R1t is more like my 2019 Kia than the 2020 version. Why there is a difference is beyond me since the regs were promulgated in 2016...

 

[ajdelange]

The problem with the current (or soon to be current) implementation is that it is classic feel-good:do-little:cost-much regulation. We can argue whether it costs "much" but keep in mind that the the "cost" here isn't just a few $ per car it is the noise pollution. The reason it does little is because most (99.9999%) of the time the blind person being warned isn't there. In detection theoretical terms the system expends resources agains a Type I error (it rejects the null hypothesis when the null hypothesis should not be rejected).

It is plainly more practical to implement a system in which the system responds to the detection of the threat i.e. one in which it responds to the presence of a blind person. This system has actually been in use for years. The traditional white cane is a signal recognized the world around that the person carrying it is blind. Being the geeky sort that I am I would suggest that whoever has say pass a regulation requiring manufacturers of those canes to incorporate a low power rf beacon. Motor vehicles would also be required to incorporate a detector for this beacon. This does impose a $ burden on OEMs but at least the noise pollution burden would be eliminated.

Even this is probably unnecessary. If Tesla's Sentry tech is good enough to detect security threats to the vehicles it should be good enough to detect people (blind or not) close enough to the vehicle to represent the threat of being stricken when pulling away from a light. Clearly small children playing around cars represent a much bigger threat than the blind.

 

[stephenheuer]

It’s not just blind people who need to hear cars. As a bicycle commuter I need to hear cars approaching me from behind. I can’t be looking backwards all the time. It freaks me the hell out when an EV quietly appears near me that wasn’t there 20 seconds ago.

 

[Rhidan]

This is the sort of thing that may turn people away from electric vehicles, or at the very least diminish one of the benefits in switching from an ICE vehicle. It seems sort of silly to use the noise of a combustion engine as the baseline for pedestrian safety, and develop systems for an EV to match that sound level.

I'm not trying to downplay the real safety concerns others have raised. But it seems like there could be other solutions or options to improve pedestrian safety other than mandating that EVs must be noisy under 18 mph.

 

[electruck]

This is the sort of thing that may turn people away from eclectic vehicles, or at the very least diminish one of the benefits in switching from an ICE vehicle. It seems sort of silly to use the noise of a combustion engine as the baseline for pedestrian safety, and develop systems for an EV to match that sound level.

I'm not trying to downplay the real safety concerns others have raised. But it seems like there could be other solutions or options to improve pedestrian safety other than mandating that EVs must be noisy under 18 mph.

Yes, I would find 110 dB fart noises to be offensive and turn me away from buying any vehicle making such noises. But the reality is, the noises being implemented are actually far more subtle and far less offensive than the noises made by many ICE vehicles on the road today. It's also the sort of thing that most people get over quickly after they actually drive an electric vehicle.

Could there be a better way? There almost certainly is but it has yet to be identified, standardized and implemented. This is the best solution we have for now, even if it is full of compromises. We simply can't afford to do nothing while we wait for something better to come along.

 

[C.R. Rivian]

This is the sort of thing that may turn people away from electric vehicles, or at the very least diminish one of the benefits in switching from an ICE vehicle. It seems sort of silly to use the noise of a combustion engine as the baseline for pedestrian safety, and develop systems for an EV to match that sound level.

I'm not trying to downplay the real safety concerns others have raised. But it seems like there could be other solutions or options to improve pedestrian safety other than mandating that EVs must be noisy under 18 mph.

the issue is loud enough, but not too loud. My Kia Niro 2019 is loud enough; it makes a kind of musical warble, not obnoxious. It has alerted people in parking lots. Niro EV forums report that the 2020 version wakes the neighbors. A better standard is in order.

 

[Rhidan]

This is the best solution we have for now, even if it is full of compromises. We simply can't afford to do nothing while we wait for something better to come along.

That's certainly one way to look at it. There would be other people who will say we can't afford to delay the conversion from ICE to EV, and placing new regulations exclusively on vehicles that represent only 1% of the cars on the road may lead to that delay.

 

[DucRider]

That's certainly one way to look at it. There would be other people who will say we can't afford to delay the conversion from ICE to EV, and placing new regulations exclusively on vehicles that represent only 1% of the cars on the road may lead to that delay.

The regulation is not exclusive to EVs

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