R1S Maineiac

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interesting thought:

apparently VW is looking to bail on Electrify America, and their stake is rumored to be for sale for $1B.

I wonder if it's an all-or-nothing, or if a certain OEM can maybe drop 100-500M and A: buy-in, guaranteeing their vehicles will have access to a large scale charging network from day 1, while B: making money from other vehicles' charging needs..........





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Autolycus

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Doesn't sound to me like VW is looking to bail. It looks like they need cash for the next wave(s) of station expansion, and they want someone else to put skin in the game alongside them. Ideally it will be several auto manufacturers who invest, so that it's not all dependent on just one or two. IONITY in Europe is structured that way, with investments from BMW, Daimler, Ford, Hyundai, and VW. Hyundai was the last to join in Nov 2020. I would love to see

https://insideevs.com/news/518598/rumor-volkswagen-coinvestor-electrify-america/

Hyundai, Ford, and Jeep have partnered with EA in various ways, but obviously have not invested in it directly. GM partnered with EVGo, but there are plenty of stories about how that relationship is on thin ice because EVGo is well behind their required pace of installation of new higher-speed chargers. Nissan has partnered with (or maybe even invested in) EVGo. The ideal would probably be for Hyundai, Ford, and Jeep to invest what VW's looking for with EA and for GM and Nissan to invest heavily in EVGo so we have 2 well-funded networks tied to large manufacturers who are highly motivated to keep the networks alive. (EDIT: Daimler has invested $82 million in Chargepoint, so that's a third network with manufacturer investment.)

Also an interesting quote that Electrek got from EA in a request for comment about the new investor reports:

“Electrify America, the largest open DC fast charging network in the U.S., is accelerating the rate of charging infrastructure installations across the U.S., currently with more than 630 charging stations and over 2,700 individuals chargers at those stations. We are focused on having about 800 stations and 3,500 chargers by the end of 2021. We have nothing to share beyond those plans.”
I'm sure those numbers have been mentioned before, but I think it's worth highlighting again how quickly EA is still expanding. They're saying they will add ~170 stations and ~800 chargers (average of ~4.7 chargers/station) before the end of THIS YEAR. That's still pretty aggressive growth. I don't think they've shared many plans beyond that wave of expansion this year, but it looks like maybe the plans will be at least somewhat contingent on an infusion of cash from another investor.
 

GHuff

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Most charging for intra-city driving is done at home. Rivian doesn’t need a RAN fast charger in every neighborhood. They need them in places that people need to charge: along major highway routes and in areas where people want to do outdoor recreation that’s not covered by other charging networks. The map of TX looks like it does a pretty good job of covering the major highway routes, especially between the big metro areas.
Ah, that makes sense. I didn't think about that.

But I still think they are missing the Texas market. I have been following Rivian for two years now and haven't seen any events, show rooms, or service centers announced in Texas. There might have been one in Austin, but that is it. And
 

TeamEV

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Found a handful of new sites (with addresses and all) down in Texas via TDLR, if you want to add them on your map.

EVCS (RAN)

1821 S. Valley Mills Dr Waco, TX 76711
6055 South Fwy Houston, TX 77004
2181 Milam St Columbus, TX 78934

New Stores and Service Centers

2512 Hawes Ave Dallas, TX 75235
622 Morrow Street Austin, TX 78752

I usually search for Tesla Supercharger permits and I happened to scroll by a few Rivian stations. Due to Rivian's lack of transparency on their charging network (quite like Tesla), I'll let you guys know when I find some permits.

More to the point of the (possibly crowdsourced?) RAN map, I'm also an editor for supercharge.info, and we generally update locations based on work status. I'm curious if you would be interested in marking the stations based on different stages of development or simply mark the known location?
 
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Autolycus

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Found a handful of new sites (with addresses and all) down in Texas via TDLR, if you want to add them on your map.

EVCS (RAN)

1821 S. Valley Mills Dr Waco, TX 76711
6055 South Fwy Houston, TX 77004
2181 Milam St Columbus, TX 78934

New Stores and Service Centers

2512 Hawes Ave Dallas, TX 75235
622 Morrow Street Austin, TX 78752

I usually search for Tesla Supercharger permits and I happened to scroll by a few Rivian stations. Due to Rivian's lack of transparency on their charging network (quite like Tesla), I'll let you guys know when I find some permits.

More to the point of the (possibly crowdsourced?) RAN map, I'm also an editor for supercharge.info, and we generally update locations based on work status. I'm curious if you would be interested in marking the stations based on different stages of development or simply mark the known location?
I’ll get those added tomorrow. It shouldn’t be too hard to add a field to the locations for status and then group and color code off that within the layer of known locations.

I may go on and start a layer for service centers.

General question though: what might be the pros and cons of continuing with Google Maps vs trying to get a site like supercharge.info to start hosting a RAN equivalent?
 

TXKidd

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Found a handful of new sites (with addresses and all) down in Texas via TDLR, if you want to add them on your map.

New Stores and Service Centers

2512 Hawes Ave Dallas, TX 75235
Sweet, I used to work right by there. I may have to swing by every so often and see how things progress.
 

TeamEV

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General question though: what might be the pros and cons of continuing with Google Maps vs trying to get a site like supercharge.info to start hosting a RAN equivalent?
The format on Google Maps makes it so all the details would be roughly compiled, and I'm not sure the locations map can be crowdsourced. If it can, I guess that could work.

I know that Supercharge Info has a lot of detail on charge speeds, stall numbers and thread links. It was all coded by the founder and we've been running with it since. I don't have any coding experience so I would have a hard time managing something like this. I'm wondering if it would be possible to transfer and modify the code from SIF to adjust to RAN.
 

flabyboy

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Doesn't sound to me like VW is looking to bail. It looks like they need cash for the next wave(s) of station expansion, and they want someone else to put skin in the game alongside them. Ideally it will be several auto manufacturers who invest, so that it's not all dependent on just one or two. IONITY in Europe is structured that way, with investments from BMW, Daimler, Ford, Hyundai, and VW. Hyundai was the last to join in Nov 2020. I would love to see

https://insideevs.com/news/518598/rumor-volkswagen-coinvestor-electrify-america/

Hyundai, Ford, and Jeep have partnered with EA in various ways, but obviously have not invested in it directly. GM partnered with EVGo, but there are plenty of stories about how that relationship is on thin ice because EVGo is well behind their required pace of installation of new higher-speed chargers. Nissan has partnered with (or maybe even invested in) EVGo. The ideal would probably be for Hyundai, Ford, and Jeep to invest what VW's looking for with EA and for GM and Nissan to invest heavily in EVGo so we have 2 well-funded networks tied to large manufacturers who are highly motivated to keep the networks alive. (EDIT: Daimler has invested $82 million in Chargepoint, so that's a third network with manufacturer investment.)

Also an interesting quote that Electrek got from EA in a request for comment about the new investor reports:


I'm sure those numbers have been mentioned before, but I think it's worth highlighting again how quickly EA is still expanding. They're saying they will add ~170 stations and ~800 chargers (average of ~4.7 chargers/station) before the end of THIS YEAR. That's still pretty aggressive growth. I don't think they've shared many plans beyond that wave of expansion this year, but it looks like maybe the plans will be at least somewhat contingent on an infusion of cash from another investor.
But do their chargers work. Been reading how unreliable many of them have been as of late. We need vast AND reliable infrastructure
 

DuckTruck

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One of the cool things that becomes apparent when looking at combination of RAN and EA is that Rivian seems to have put some effort in to supplement EA and generally isn't planning on stations in the same places that EA is. Which I suspect makes their build out even more aggressive since they may have to fight for new backbone installations to get the power where they need vs piggybacking on EA and Tesla.
First of all, my thanks to people like Autolycus, SeaGeo, and the others who have put a ton of time, effort, and thought into this. I know I'm not alone in saying your hard work is greatly appreciated!

I'm not sure I'm catching all of the stations for both the RAN and EA, but if I'm reading it correctly, there still appears to be some open expanses that could use some love to allow relatively anxiety-free passage. Again, I may be missing some stations between all of the maps, but many North/South routes look to have large gaps, even along the Interstates.

Texas and New Mexico seem to have large areas that could be bridged by stations in Lubbock, Wichita Falls, and Laredo, Texas, along with Roswell, New Mexico.

I've already ranted quite often about Burns, Oregon being ideal to fill the gigantic hole in Eastern Oregon, but Susanville and Alturas, California would be a great help, as would Ely and Tonopah, Nevada, and McCall and Lewiston, Idaho. That huge piece of Adventureland between I-80, I-90, and US-97 is currently unavailable for safe passage, especially if towing anything. The stations along I-84 from Portland to Ogden get you between those locales, but don't allow for much exploration.

Again, a major tip of the hat to everyone who has contributed to this most useful and interesting conversation. I'm really looking forward to seeing the increased detail and additional stations to follow. 👍 👍
 
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Autolycus

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Found a handful of new sites (with addresses and all) down in Texas via TDLR, if you want to add them on your map.

EVCS (RAN)

1821 S. Valley Mills Dr Waco, TX 76711
6055 South Fwy Houston, TX 77004
2181 Milam St Columbus, TX 78934
These have construction permits? Or are too early in the process for that?

I'm starting to make some distinctions on my map for the status. Right now I think only Salida, CO is beyond just the "known address" stage, but I'm happy to make updates to that.

Unrelated to this but keeping responses a little less frequent: I did some googling, and there might be some options for opening up crowdsourcing a little more than just to a handful of volunteers. Unfortunately the better options aren't free. Shocking, I know!! The good news is that Google Maps is easy to export to a data table, so any work put into that one wouldn't be lost if I, or someone else, wants to switch to some other platform. I'll do some more research this weekend to see if I find something I really like (and that's at a price I am willing to pay--most likely free is the winner right now!)
 

TXKidd

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Sweet, I used to work right by there. I may have to swing by every so often and see how things progress.
Out of curiosity, I went and took a look today. No work has begun at the Dallas location at this point. I’ll probably swing by every 3-4 weeks or so to try to capture updates.
 

cc84

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Out of curiosity, I went and took a look today. No work has begun at the Dallas location at this point. I’ll probably swing by every 3-4 weeks or so to try to capture updates.
If I saw correctly, it's located close to Love Field and across the street from an Amazon Fulfillment Center. I was close by Wednesday, at Big Shucks, east on Mockingbird. Hopefully I can get by occasionally too.
 

azbill

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The second problem is, I most often didn't see ABRP used for route planning. At least not in the Bolt EV groups. As I said, it was most often used as a tool to denigrate or dismiss the Bolt EV (i.e., a marketing and sales tool). "You can't make this trip because ABRP says...." or "See how much slower or more expensive it is to travel in a Bolt EV because ABRP says...." At that point, when ABRP is no longer being used as a route planning tool, a 15% to 20% conservative margin of error is misleading and harmful.
I have a 2017 Bolt and also have not been using ABRP, although I have downloaded it and played around. So back in January I drove my Bolt to Flagstaff from Phoenix, starting out with less than a full charge and having to use the heater. I was able to make it to Flagstaff with 5% battery left, certainly would have had more margin if I had fully charged.

So I am now planning a trip to the Grand Canyon in my Mach E, but for fun I planned it in my Bolt using ABRP. It tells me I cannot get to Flagstaff in my Bolt, even starting with a full charge. There is also an EA station about 30 miles into the trip, where I suppose I could top off a bit, but it ignores that. Do I trust it? Of course not, since I have already made that trip previously.

My GM app tells me I can make the trip starting out at 90% charge and ending up with 8% charge in Flagstaff, which actually is pretty close to the trip I did in January.
 

SeaGeo

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I have a 2017 Bolt and also have not been using ABRP, although I have downloaded it and played around. So back in January I drove my Bolt to Flagstaff from Phoenix, starting out with less than a full charge and having to use the heater. I was able to make it to Flagstaff with 5% battery left, certainly would have had more margin if I had fully charged.

So I am now planning a trip to the Grand Canyon in my Mach E, but for fun I planned it in my Bolt using ABRP. It tells me I cannot get to Flagstaff in my Bolt, even starting with a full charge. There is also an EA station about 30 miles into the trip, where I suppose I could top off a bit, but it ignores that. Do I trust it? Of course not, since I have already made that trip previously.

My GM app tells me I can make the trip starting out at 90% charge and ending up with 8% charge in Flagstaff, which actually is pretty close to the trip I did in January.
Conversely, I drove to a hike the other day with my ID.4. ABRP nailed my arrival SOC at both the TH and then back home within 1%. When we left the TH at 28% and put the route home for fun in the car's nav, it said I wouldn't make it home and there was no charging available. Made it with 20% SOC.

I've found ABRP quite accurate, and very helpful in estimating energy consumption for various conditions (like going up to a mountain). It's definitely not perfect, but it can be a useful learning tool, and supplement to other apps.
 

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