Possible Fisker Bankruptcy

[Count Orlok]

deja vue all over again

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[s4wrxttcs]

I hope they can open source all or most of it before they go.

Would be pretty awesome to have a completely open source EV.

 

[Chrisy]

I hope they can open source all or most of it before they go.

Would be pretty awesome to have a completely open source EV.

On the other hand I think that after some tinkering with the SW the vehicle will not be road legal anymore as the necessary safety regulations will not be re-evaluated after the changes applied.

 

[Dark-Fx]

On the other hand I think that after some tinkering with the SW the vehicle will not be road legal anymore as the necessary safety regulations will not be re-evaluated after the changes applied.

For a manufacturer to sell a new car with that software is complicated. For me though? I can get it re-titled as an assembled vehicle in my state if I had to (I won't), and these are literally the only things that they care about:

https://www.michigan.gov/sos/-/media/Project/Websites/sos/28lawensn/TR54.pdf

 

[Chrisy]

For a manufacturer to sell a new car with that software is complicated. For me though? I can get it re-titled as an assembled vehicle in my state if I had to (I won't), and these are literally the only things that they care about:

https://www.michigan.gov/sos/-/media/Project/Websites/sos/28lawensn/TR54.pdf

This is a very interesting point that might be better discussed in a separate place

Never the less it is interesting see that regulations only look at the HW aspects of the vehicle while in reality the SW parts became just as safety relevant as the HW.
in the inspection sheet you kindly provided there are exactly zero items that is related to any kind of SW functionalities.

And I think we can agree on that messing up any control SW in a vehicle can kill you and others on the public roads easily. For example I saw unsafe behavior by only messing up half a line of a brake control code. A minor coding mistake was all it took to slam the test vehicle with a qualified test driver into the fence at high speed. Luckily he survived but that was sheer luck and probably his skills. Root cause: wrong indexing of the wheels led to change control on opposite wheels. Accelerating that should have been braking and vice versa.

Yet I understand that inspecting the SW capabilities/limitations of a vehicle is more difficult (to put it nicely) than checking the HW capabilities/limitations.

 

[Dark-Fx]

This is a very interesting point that might be better discussed in a separate place

Never the less it is interesting see that regulations only look at the HW aspects of the vehicle while in reality the SW parts became just as safety relevant as the HW.
in the inspection sheet you kindly provided there are exactly zero items that is related to any kind of SW functionalities.

And I think we can agree on that messing up any control SW in a vehicle can kill you and others on the public roads easily. For example I saw unsafe behavior by only messing up half a line of a brake control code. A minor coding mistake was all it took to slam the test vehicle with a qualified test driver into the fence at high speed. Luckily he survived but that was sheer luck and probably his skills.

Yet I understand that inspecting the SW capabilities/limitations of a vehicle is more difficult (to put it nicely) than checking the HW capabilities/limitations.

For sure, that's why people have a hard time trusting all of these "X-by-wire" systems that don't have a physical backup and don't have a way to stop the control in a situation where there is a software problem.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

On the other hand I think that after some tinkering with the SW the vehicle will not be road legal anymore as the necessary safety regulations will not be re-evaluated after the changes applied.

I do think its ironic that we share are roads in the US with clearly unsafe lifted trucks and other bizarre things, but we're terrified of someone loading custom FW onto all the various modules used in an EV.

Now sure there is the potential for failure, but no more so then if I hack my ICE vehicle.

Most people view EV's as a locked system where they can't repair it or customize it.

This is why a lot of people are hesitant of jumping on the EV bandwagon.

 

[Chrisy]

I do think its ironic that we share are roads in the US with clearly unsafe lifted trucks and other bizarre things, but we're terrified of someone loading custom FW onto all the various modules used in an EV.

Now sure there is the potential for failure, but no more so then if I hack my ICE vehicle.

Most people view EV's as a locked system where they can't repair it or customize it.

This is why a lot of people are hesitant of jumping on the EV bandwagon.

I am not saying good or bad. just trying to give a perspective that might be new to some.

I know this is oversimplifying but one of the key differences between HW changes and SW changes is that HW is bound to the laws of physics while SW is not (that one is bound the the limitation of the compiler, etc but that let that slip as I am trying to make a different approach here).
So your HW control will always limited by the physical world, good example is inertia. When you accidentally speed up your wheel too much there is a hard limit how fast the gradient can go. In SW you can go from zero to over 9000 in milliseconds. Things can go wrong in extremities that is not really possible with HW.

Example: a half-shaft can broke and can make a lot of bad things. But it will never -for example- control the electronic park brake calipers to grab the wheels at max force. A messed up SW code for driving the wheel can even if it was not supposed to do anything with IPB. Using bad CAN IDs, too bad you want to increase engine torque but you ended up increasing brake torque...

Extreme example (with double fault as the failsafe is weak as well, but): a very bad SW can mess up the in-vehicle communication and basically affect tens/hundreds of vehicle functionalities go OFF.

I think there is a major difference in safety due to the "unboundness" of the SW.

And a SW built control's complexity is in a different universe compared to HW built controls based on my experience (which might lacking for sure). And I can imagine very complex HW contraptions. But I worked with multi million line (vehicle) control SW as well so I have a comparison base.

Anyhow just trying to make a point that might be overlooked many times.
Safety related vehicle SW development is vastly different from a webpage development or an android app development for that matter. It is more like aerospace safety SW development. Hence the regulations around it being strict. And hence my hesitation to make it open source so everyone can modify it for themselves.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Opportunity for another Chinese automaker eying entry to the US market? Though Wanxiang hasn’t done much with Fisker 1.0.

This just went live on thedrive.com: https://www.thedrive.com/news/fiske...-delivered-cars-without-taking-payment-report

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

Well....the Fisker website came alive again today....and it supposedly allowed me to refund my $250 deposit on the Fisker Alaska Truck. What are the chances this actually is credited to my credit card? Second screen shot is from my Chase Sapphire Card Account.

Any guesses?

 

[jjswan33]

Well....the Fisker website came alive again today....and it supposedly allowed me to refund my $250 deposit on the Fisker Alaska Truck. What are the chances this actually is credited to my credit card? Second screen shot is from my Chase Sapphire Card Account.

Any guesses?

Based on what I read about their accounting they might accidentally send you a prototype Alaska truck.

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

Based on what I read about their accounting they might accidentally send you a prototype Alaska truck.

Winner!!

 

[kvenom]

LOL even the Fiskerati guy dumped his

 

[Dark-Fx]

Well....the Fisker website came alive again today....and it supposedly allowed me to refund my $250 deposit on the Fisker Alaska Truck. What are the chances this actually is credited to my credit card? Second screen shot is from my Chase Sapphire Card Account.

Any guesses?

Supposedly Chase held all the deposits, so seems pretty likely.

 

[Dark-Fx]

LOL even the Fiskerati guy dumped his

I probably would do the same in his position. He tied a lot of his time and money up into Fisker, and at some point people in that position just switch to "cut your losses" mode.

Me though, I didn't put much into Fisker stock and my Ocean is not my only vehicle. It still works, so no need to realize the significant losses in selling it right now while everyone else is trying to get out of theirs as well.

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