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Official Cold Weather Driving Thread (Tips, Tricks, Tears)

yizzung

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(Admins feel free to move this but it's not really a range thread nor an accessory thread nor a technique thread, so I figure it's just "general"...)

So, the 40% cold weather penalty news landed today with a thud:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ggets-gleaned-from-epa-application-docs.2272/

As avid skier and city-dweller, I'm constantly traversing the SF-to-Tahoe or Denver-to-Rockies paths to the slopes. In both cases, 150-200 mile one-way trips. In some instances, driving highways/backroads with snow/ice.

My current order is for an R1T with 300 mile range and AT 3PMSF tires. A 40% knock just due to cold weather would keep me short of my destination without charging along the way. Luckily in California, it only starts to get cold once you get into elevation, so maybe fine there until the last third of the 180 miles. But in Colorado, it's probably "cold" for my entire journey. (Plus there's a range hit for these tires and any driving mode appropriate in snowy weather.)

I don't mind a mid-trip charge but that's going to be a little lame in the middle of a snowstorm on (what should be) just a 3-4 hour trip. I'm also curious what happens to the battery when traffic is at a standstill for hours -- happens all the time in the Sierras -- on the highway while you're waiting for the snow plows to do their thing.

Curious to know what others are planning... I wasn't having much range anxiety prior to today's report.

Does it help if the car is (pre)warm when you leave the charging station at home?

Do we think it's better to go with 21" non-3PMSF tires combined with AWD? Or better to go with ATs and use conserve mode? (Kind of a rhetorical question because there's no way in hell that I'm buying this vehicle and NOT using AWD when it's snowing...)

Do we think it's weird that there's no "snow" mode for driving? Is "all purpose" the way to go?

Do we think it's weird that there's no hill descent mode?

Any other tricks out there worth knowing?
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PastyPilgrim

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One thing I'm unclear on is where the inefficiency in cold manifests. Like, is most cold loss due to batteries being cold, motors being cold, tires being cold, etc.?

I thought it was due to batteries being cold, but I would've thought with a sealed battery compartment with insulation and a heater that the range loss wouldn't be as significant.

If it's motors being cold, would range loss be mitigated by pre-heating the vehicle (ideally while still connected to external power).
 

flabyboy

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One thing I'm unclear on is where the inefficiency in cold manifests. Like, is most cold loss due to batteries being cold, motors being cold, tires being cold, etc.?

I thought it was due to batteries being cold, but I would've thought with a sealed battery compartment with insulation and a heater that the range loss wouldn't be as significant.

If it's motors being cold, would range loss be mitigated by pre-heating the vehicle (ideally while still connected to external power).
I know a lot of it has to do with heating the cabin. I imagine preconditioning while plugged in will help to some degree
 

roth_nj

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What are the cold weather losses like in other EVs?​
 

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crashmtb

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One thing I'm unclear on is where the inefficiency in cold manifests. Like, is most cold loss due to batteries being cold, motors being cold, tires being cold, etc.?

I thought it was due to batteries being cold, but I would've thought with a sealed battery compartment with insulation and a heater that the range loss wouldn't be as significant.

If it's motors being cold, would range loss be mitigated by pre-heating the vehicle (ideally while still connected to external power).
It’s everything being cold.

Well damn, if that's all then I'll just keep my mittens on!
mittens are for peasants, that’s what the heated steering wheel is for
 

roth_nj

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Cold temperatures increase aerodynamic drag on the car. Cold temperatures increase hysteresis losses in tires, increasing rolling resistance. Cold temperatures reduce tire pressure, increasing rolling resistance. Cold temperatures increase aerodynamic drag on the tires, increasing rolling resistance.
Also, just physics accounts for part of it.

i know in my Tacoma I go from 20 mpg to 17 over the winter. So that’s about a 15% loss. Maybe half of that is just the switch to winter gas and the rest the other factors?
 

mtw777

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I’m in the same boat. Suddenly those highway trips to go skiing seem entirely less practical. Very disappointing but maybe the battery tech isn’t just there yet. Too bad…
 

Matty J

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roth_nj

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Gotta imagine the tire efficiency doesn’t make as big a difference in snowy conditions. Maybe the 21s aren’t that much better than the ATs in those conditions ??
 

Amdolan

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One thing I'm unclear on is where the inefficiency in cold manifests. Like, is most cold loss due to batteries being cold, motors being cold, tires being cold, etc.?

I thought it was due to batteries being cold, but I would've thought with a sealed battery compartment with insulation and a heater that the range loss wouldn't be as significant.

If it's motors being cold, would range loss be mitigated by pre-heating the vehicle (ideally while still connected to external power).
Agree with this. Before everyone gets too worked up, I’d wait to see what real world range loss is in cold weather. 40% on the epa testing may not, likely will not, directly translate 1 to 1 with real world. Also that 40% loss was an estimate, combining multiple driving modes, in a standardized test that most people agree don’t perfectly represent real world conditions.
 

Craigins

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It isn't 40%. That was the average between sport and conserve mode. Clearly if you are going for range you'd be in conserve mode.

Also later on in the post someone posted the test process, thats starting from cold, ie no preconditioning while plugged in. Also keeping the cabin at 72 degrees. It was also the city driving test, I'm sure there are differnces with that too.

It isn't a real world number, this thread is a bit too chicken little for me.
 

sub

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I went on a 700 mile road trip (in one day) last winter in my Model 3, on a day when the high was around 0F.

I did have to stop and charge more frequently, and the charging rate was somewhat reduced, but at the end of the day, the actual impact was pretty negligible. It took 1 hour longer than that same trip does in the summer. 14 hours vs 13 hours really isn't enough of a difference to stress out about.

As long as there are plenty of chargers along the route, the Rivian will be fine in the winter.

Here is the data from my Model 3 at various temperatures. I expect Rivian's losses to be very similar.

Rivian R1T R1S Official Cold Weather Driving Thread (Tips, Tricks, Tears) Screenshot 2021-09-28 2.40.14 PM
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