My one deciding factor on converting a deposit to a purchase

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cskatx

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I thought the official answer is that it will be a mobile service model, provided by Cox. And if a vehicle needs to go to a repair center that they would come get it, then drop it off after it's fixed.

Sounds great to me, and I have confidence in the scale & expertise of Cox...much better than a dealership service model.

What are the additional concerns here?
That's awesome. I'd not seen this. Could you point me to where on their website they state their policy? Thank you!
 

EyeOnRivian

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Yes, they've officially said it's a white-glove on-site type of service model, leveraging all the data that they have access to on the cars so they come prepared to make the appropriate repair(s). If not fixable on-site, then they will do a pickup/dropoff service, and I'm assuming will leave you with a loaner if needed.

I'm also not quite sure what the concern is.
I agree as I was told the same thing last October at the Normal event. In addition ...


That's awesome. I'd not seen this. Could you point me to where on their website they state their policy? Thank you!
Ha, good luck with that. I wish Rivian would document way more than they have done so far. However, playing devils advocate, I suspect at this point in development that by not documenting these things gives them the flexibility to change things without having to retract prior statements or documentation before going to production.

None the less, with regards to white glove service, there is a youtube video where Charles Sanderson, Rivian’s VP of Development & Integration, is asked about this. Check out the following thread: "RJ and Charles provide more on Rivian service and other topics"

Now that was nearly a year ago so whether or not that will be Rivian's approach to service as we get closer to production, e.g. when they start accepting pre-orders to be converted into actual orders, who knows. As many have said throughout this forum especially lately, it would serve Rivian well if they could at least produce some PR - email, videos, articles, interviews, etc - to announce or reaffirm past announcements that have accumulated some dust. I'd rather see that then some video on "how to draw your Rivian" like they released today. It was interesting but I think of dozens of other, more useful content they could be providing during this (semi) shutdown.

E.g. Cupra published yesterday an interesting youtube video that allowed the viewer to control a 360 view of it's interior.
 

ajdelange

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I'm also not quite sure what the concern is.
I think a lot of the concern ultimately stems from the widely reported experiences of Tesla owners with Tesla service. I don't see people screaming about how bad service is for the Bolt. But that's because I don't go to Bolt websites. Even if there are problems I at least have the comfort of knowing that presumably if my Bolt breaksdown on I91 I can limp into the nearest Chevy dealer. Chevrolet is a long established dealer. Tesla is not and there were (note use of past tense) big problems with their service: weeks to get an appointment, months waiting for parts.... Running a service organization is a huge problem in logistics involving having enough parts in the right places, knowing where they are and having the means to move them from where they are to where they are needed in timely fashion. Tesla had problems ramping up production and it had trouble ramping up service. It is quite reasonable to think that another startup, Rivian, might have some of the same problems and some reassurance that they have taken steps against this eventuality would be reassuring.

I was a systems engineer. I tend to see the truck as one segment of a transportation system. The other two big ones are support and charging. For the system to do what it is supposed to do all three segments need to be up to snuff.

Yes, Rivian has stated that service is going to be "white glove" and I have little doubt that at least at first it will be just as Tesla's was. But this is going to be expensive and Rivian is going to lose money at it. No auto maker can survive dispatching flatbeds with loaners all over the country every time someone gets a flat tire. So they are going to have to come up with something else. I'd say the Ranger system adopted by Tesla has been very successful but they still have work to do.
 

cohall

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I think a lot of the concern ultimately stems from the widely reported experiences of Tesla owners with Tesla service. I don't see people screaming about how bad service is for the Bolt. But that's because I don't go to Bolt websites. Even if there are problems I at least have the comfort of knowing that presumably if my Bolt breaksdown on I91 I can limp into the nearest Chevy dealer. Chevrolet is a long established dealer. Tesla is not and there were (note use of past tense) big problems with their service: weeks to get an appointment, months waiting for parts.... Running a service organization is a huge problem in logistics involving having enough parts in the right places, knowing where they are and having the means to move them from where they are to where they are needed in timely fashion. Tesla had problems ramping up production and it had trouble ramping up service. It is quite reasonable to think that another startup, Rivian, might have some of the same problems and some reassurance that they have taken steps against this eventuality would be reassuring.
I totally get what you're saying. I guess what I'm questioning is what Rivian could tell anyone to alleviate those fears? They've told us how they plan to deliver service. I'm sure they're not planning on having Tesla-esque problems, but what would they tell us now, before they even have any cars that need service? We already know that they've partnered with an established service company (Cox), which should help reduce some of the issues.

Are their likely to be service-related issues? Most probably yes. But we all are planning on buying this vehicle knowing they don't have a huge dealer network for servicing, so that's something we need to either accept, or start looking at other more established options that better meet our needs.
 

ajdelange

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I guess what I'm questioning is what Rivian could tell anyone to alleviate those fears? They've told us how they plan to deliver service.
Other than mentions of white glove service and the tie in with Cox I guess I must have missed all that.

I'm sure they're not planning on having Tesla-esque problems, but what would they tell us now, before they even have any cars that need service?
I am sure they aren't but I'm pretty sure that Tesla wasn't either.


We already know that they've partnered with an established service company (Cox), which should help reduce some of the issues.
I assume it has something to do with Pivet? If that is indeed the case they could start sketching out how we would actually interface with Pivet. Will we report problems to a phone app resulting in Pivet dispatching a ranger? How many Pivet service centers are there and where are they located etc.? If you are considering a Tesla there are lots of places you can go to find out what to expect if you have a flat on the freeway or get a ding in a quarter panel or have a battery failure. Rivian is getting close enough (we hope) to delivery that the basic structure of the service segment should have been defined to the point where they could reveal at least the basic shape of it. The fact that they haven't suggests that perhaps the basic armature has not been built. I think this is what worries some.


Are their likely to be service-related issues? Most probably yes.
Definitely yes. A misaligned door. A misplaced seal. Flaws in the paint. All minor things but things we will want fixed.


But we all are planning on buying this vehicle knowing they don't have a huge dealer network for servicing, so that's something we need to either accept, or start looking at other more established options that better meet our needs.
That's really the big problem for Rivian as the clock marches forward. When I put my deposit down there was no real alternative. No where I could get a pickup with 400 mile range. Well that's not the case today. There are alternatives. Rivian has got to start looking good in other dimensions today if they hope to capture a big piece of the pie.
 

ajdelange

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DucRider

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I sort of get the idea of how I'd use Pivet if I owned a fleet of taxis but how do I use them as an individual Rivian owner? That's what I think people want to know.
Think of Rivian as the fleet operator. There will be a phone number to call to arrange for service, likely an app as an option, and the vehicle may "call" on it's own in some circumstances. Same way it's currently done for almost all manufacturers (including Tesla).

As to other truck options with an established service network that are available in 2021? I'm drawing a blank. Lordstown? Atlis? Bollinger? Or ?? Electric F150 is unlikely in 2021, Hummer is 2022 at best. Cybertruck is a wildcard. Tesla has reputation of being late, but delivered the Y ahead of schedule so there is an outside chance that some will ship in 2021. There is certainly nothing as far along in development as the Rivian offerings.
Even when the traditional OEMs roll out EV's, you can't just drive into just any dealership and expect them to have the training and equipment to service your vehicle. In California most dealers will be able to take care of you. In North Dakota/Montana/Ohio/etc? Not so much. A few random samples show about 50% of Chevy dealers in the central part of the US are listed as Bolt EV service capable. There are big holes in the Tesla service network in many areas of the country. All EV makers have that dilemma even if they have an established dealer network.

Still plenty of time before a purchase decision/commitment is required for any of the upcoming trucks/SUV's.
 

ajdelange

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Same way it's currently done for almost all manufacturers (including Tesla).
Somehow you have apparently come to the conclusion that Tesla's service model is similar to "allmost all manufacturers". It isn't. I think many of the people here are aware of that and want to know whether Rivian service is going to be more like "almost all manufaturers" or more like Tesla's or something in between.

Still plenty of time before a purchase decision/commitment is required for any of the upcoming trucks/SUV's.
The point I keep trying to get across is that as this time passes the devil people know about (Tesla) is looking more and more attractive relative to the one we don't know about. Rivian's prospects could be improved by letting its potential buyers know more about how the car will be
1)Sold
2)Charged
3)Maintained/repaired
 

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I agree. Time to buckle up, Rivian.

Once Normal re-opens, pent-up expectations are/will be sky high. It's time to answer the "whens," "hows," and "whats".

1) When will Normal be fully re-opened?
2) When will the configurator be up and running?
3) When will the first customer pre-ordered vehicles be ready?
4) When, where and how will test drives be handled?
5) How will purchases work; how about trade-ins, financing?
6) Normal factory pick-ups and factory tours?
7) Lots of battery, charging and related questions: how's it going to happen?
8) What's the service model; how will breakdowns be handled; what's the warranty?
9) Routine and periodic maintenance; what's the model; how does it get done?
10) What are the upgrade paths for batteries, battery management systems, autonomous driving and other systems as new versions are released?
11) Other stuff, cskatx, AJ, and others haven't mentioned.

A pandemic shutdown was unavoidable. It's given Rivian time to put plans in order. It's time to reveal the plans.
 
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OldEVGuy

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I agree. Time to buckle up, Rivian.

Once Normal re-opens, pent-up expectations are/will be sky high. It's time to answer the "whens," "hows," and "whats".

1) When will Normal be fully re-opened?
2) When will the configurator be up and running?
3) When will the first customer pre-ordered vehicles be ready?
4) When, where and how will test drives be handled?
5) How will purchases work; how about trade-ins, financing?
6) Normal factory pick-ups and factory tours?
7) Lots of battery, charging and related questions: how's it going to happen?
8) What's the service model; how will breakdowns be handled; what's the warranty?
9) Routine and periodic maintenance; what's the model; how does it get done?
10) What are the upgrade paths for batteries, battery management systems, autonomous driving and other systems as new versions are released?
11) Other stuff, cskatx, AJ, and others haven't mentioned.

A pandemic shutdown was unavoidable. It's given Rivian time to put plans in order. It's time to reveal the plans.
I’d like to add to Mark‘s list, # 5, re: financing. RJ mentioned the possibility of a subscription model. This would be very attractive, and could be the deciding factor for me.
 
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Fclmd

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I live in Tulsa, OK.
When I looked into Tesla this past year, they have one local independent repairman who will come do on-site maintenance. If he can’t fix a problem , their plan was for us to trailer the vehicle to Dallas, TX, then trailer it back. If we had been in Houston or Dallas, they offered Uber credits. In Tulsa, they said we were on our own.
Not impressed.
I hope Rivian has a better plan for those of us not in a >2M metropolitan area.
 

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The point I keep trying to get across is that as this time passes the devil people know about (Tesla) is looking more and more attractive relative to the one we don't know about.
Probably best you cancel your Rivian reservation if you need to know today (or the near future) exactly what Rivians plans are.. It is unlikely that Rivian will release much of the info you want until everything is finalized. This probably won't happen until much closer to launch.
As to service, how is Tesla's different? You call or use the app to schedule service. I can do that on all my vehicles. Some Tesla owners are hundreds of miles from the nearest service center, and AFIK, Ranger visits for warranty coverage are currently being "goodwilled". This could change at any moment (and has at various times in the past to the tune of $3/mi for them to come to you).
Rivian is a new manufacturer and is still figuring some things out. If that is too stressful, maybe time to move on. We are many, many months (a year?) from the delivery of any Pickup/SUV. It's not Rivians style to announce a bunch of stuff and figure out later how (and if) they can actually make it happen. Much is likely to change in the next 9 months. I don't expect to hear specifics from Rivian on anything until it is completely finalized.
What Elon has said about the Cybertruck is still "take it with a grain of salt". Not much is really known about specs, pricing, configuration or availability. It's a concept vehicle. And announced specs are always a hit or miss proposition with Tesla.

We do know the charging infrastructure will be much, much better for the Cybertruck. It will almost certainly also be more efficient and capable of faster charging. Not sure how many V3's will be installed/available to actually take advantage of this - it will take a while for Tesla to upgrade their current stations.
We also know where they have service centers today and you can look at the map to find the closest one. They will likely have many more before the Cybertruck is available.
https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds...47,-130.68816484112355&zoom=5&filters=service

Bottom line is there is no PU/SUV option out there where we know everything and likely won't for a long time.
 

ajdelange

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Bottom line is there is no PU/SUV option out there where we know everything and likely won't for a long time.
The problem for most of the folks who have expressed concern is that you know much more than they do. You even know more about Teslas than we Tesla owners do. But, with respect to Rivian (this is a Rivian forum) they want to hear it from Rivian. i.e. the horse's mouth, rather than you,

We do know the charging infrastructure will be much, much better for the Cybertruck. It will almost certainly also be more efficient and capable of faster charging.
Recognizing that this is a Rivian forum but also recognizing that anything BEV should be of interest to the members I, as a Tesla owner, would like to know what changes to the charging system are in store for us that are going to make the charging infrastructure "much, much" better than it is now. Could you expand on that?
 

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The problem for most of the folks who have expressed concern is that you know much more than they do. You even know more about Teslas than we Tesla owners do. But, with respect to Rivian (this is a Rivian forum) they want to hear it from Rivian. i.e. the horse's mouth, rather than you,



Recognizing that this is a Rivian forum but also recognizing that anything BEV should be of interest to the members I, as a Tesla owner, would like to know what changes to the charging system are in store for us that are going to make the charging infrastructure "much, much" better than it is now. Could you expand on that?
My point is that nobody knows the details about the Tesla Cybertruck (or any other upcoming truck like the Hummer, Atlis, etc), yet you are threatening to make the switch without more specific info on the Rivian. Go for it. You must know more about the Cybertruck than has been released if you have more info than from Rivian.
As to the better charging network for the Cybertruck, it will be much, much better than the CCS network when the Rivian is released. AFAIK, the only real player installing 150 kW (and 350 kW) CCS in any quantity is EA, and while they are expanding quickly, it will take a year or two (after the Rivian is released) for it to match the Tesla Supercharger network. Rivian is not planning on building their own network, but has hinted at wanting to place stations at places more "adventurous" drivers might want. But it is possible that the EA network will be very close in scope to the Supercharger network when the Cybertruck ships.
 
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