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Montana LLC Registration

mini2nut

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“My local sales tax is just under 10%, and the yearly registration fees are based on the value of the vehicle. Using 80k as the price, in round numbers sales tax will be 8k, and the annual registration over 2000.”

Wow! I thought those of us in CA paid the highest vehicle registration in the country. My county charges 7.75% sales tax and Rivian registration would be roughly $1k per year.
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mabowden

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Not even in the same zip code as a crime, but thank you for your legal analysis.
This is a crime. There are many municipalities cracking down on this. This is generally why people don't discuss it on forums, because you are asking how to commit a felony.

<- great video on this.
 
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kickstandsup

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well, I didn’t know tax evasion was legal down there in Goldwater-land.



Rivian will probably register the vehicle wherever you want...in your name.
What you don't seem to know is what a legal analysis is compared to a YouTube video.

Do you remember the question? Without anything specific to add, your posts are simply irrelevant noise.

I'll leave this alone now unless anyone has some specific experience to share.
 

RWerksman

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Welp, you've seemed to have made up your mind to give this clearly legally dubious lifehack a go. I doubt that you'll get anyone here aiding and abetting.

Gobbless borther.
 

Gator42

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I’ve seen people take the LLC trick a step further trying to outsmart the 25 year import rule by registering late model Defenders with MT with Fire and Rescue plates, claiming service vehicles and/or off road/ranch vehicles are exempt…
 

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crashmtb

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What you don't seem to know is what a legal analysis is compared to a YouTube video.

Do you remember the question? Without anything specific to add, your posts are simply irrelevant noise.

I'll leave this alone now unless anyone has some specific experience to share.
A youtube video made by a lawyer who specializes in automotive things seems legitimate. Anyone else is billing for their hours.


you made your post on a public forum, you are receiving public comments.

Call rivian and a lawyer licensed in both Arizona and Montana if you don’t want “irrelevant noise”.
 

sub

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What you don't seem to know is what a legal analysis is compared to a YouTube video.

Do you remember the question? Without anything specific to add, your posts are simply irrelevant noise.

I'll leave this alone now unless anyone has some specific experience to share.

https://azdot.gov/motor-vehicles/ve...egistration/registration-compliance-violators

Do you view the Arizona DOT an adequate authority as to the legality of this scheme?


Do any of the following apply to you? If it would be illegal under Arizona law to register your vehicle in another state.
State law requires that you obtain an Arizona vehicle registration and driver license, immediately, if any of the following apply:
  • You work in Arizona (other than for seasonal agricultural work).
  • You are registered to vote in Arizona.
  • You place children in school without paying the tuition rate of a nonresident.
  • You have a business that has an office in Arizona and that bases and operates vehicles in this state.
  • You obtain a state license or pay school tuition fees at the same rate as an Arizona resident.
  • You have a business that operates vehicles to transport goods or passengers within Arizona.
  • You remain in Arizona for a total of seven months or more during any calendar year, regardless of your permanent residence.
The Arizona DOT even has a web form dedicated to collecting reports of exactly what you are planning to do so they can hunt down violators. It is entirely possible that someone reading this thread used it. ;-)

It is also possible that the DOT will notice all the traffic coming from this page and take a look at this thread even if no one uses the form.
 
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kickstandsup

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https://azdot.gov/motor-vehicles/ve...egistration/registration-compliance-violators

Do you view the Arizona DOT an adequate authority as to the legality of this scheme?


Do any of the following apply to you? If it would be illegal under Arizona law to register your vehicle in another state.


The Arizona DOT even has a web form dedicated to collecting reports of exactly what you are planning to do so they can hunt down violators. It is entirely possible that someone reading this thread used it. ;-)
Honestly, does no one understand the legal difference between an individual person and an LLC? Companies, LLCs, exist alll over the world, and are treated separately from individuals, i.e., they are their own entity. "You" means "you."

With that, I'm done, what a waste of time. Feel free to continue moralizing.
 

Gshenderson

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Not even in the same zip code as a crime, but thank you for your legal analysis.
You are incorrect. 100%. I do this for a living. But you do you and believe whatever is convenient for you to believe.

To answer your question, though, Rivian will do this. At least they would several months ago when I inquired about it. Unlike you, though, I have legitimate business and own a residence and other properties in MT. I did not ask about having it delivered somewhere else, only if they would allow me to title and register it under my MT LLC. But since I could not honestly meet the legal requirements for NOT titling and registering the vehicle where it will spend the most time (UT), I elected to do the lawful thing and register it there.

Your issue will not be with MT. They will take your money all day long and make it very easy for you to do this. It’s sort of a little industry there. Your potential issue is with AZ should they choose to enforce their own laws. That enforcement varies by state. CA and FL have gotten pretty aggressive with this over the past several years. I’m not sure about AZ.

You should also do some research around recent changes in Federal law as it relates to anonymous LLC’s. No longer can you hide behind that attorney registered agent. So it’s not near as difficult as it used to be for investigators who repeatedly see an expensive vehicle with MT plates in their state to run the plate and determine the LLC, then check the beneficial ownership of the LLC to see who owns the LLC, and then run that against their state drivers license database to see if you are a resident. Then you’re busted.

But make no mistake. What you are proposing is tax fraud in just about any state that taxes vehicle sales. Read your AZ law.
 
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emoore

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What you don't seem to know is what a legal analysis is compared to a YouTube video.

Do you remember the question? Without anything specific to add, your posts are simply irrelevant noise.

I'll leave this alone now unless anyone has some specific experience to share.
Hahaha. Good luck! I’m sure saving a few k is worth tax fraud.
 

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Gshenderson

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Honestly, does no one understand the legal difference between an individual person and an LLC? Companies, LLCs, exist alll over the world, and are treated separately from individuals, i.e., they are their own entity. "You" means "you."

With that, I'm done, what a waste of time. Feel free to continue moralizing.
Honestly, do you understand that the directors of corporations can be held criminally and/or civilly liable for their actions running those corporations?

But that’s actually not what would trip you up here. It’s the fact that you, as an individual person residing in AZ have unlawfully evaded AZ taxes by illegally registering a vehicle that meets the AZ requirements for registration in that state. Because YOU, as an individual, chose to utilize this well known and repeatedly prosecuted scam, you would be charged in AZ as an individual, not as a director of your LLC. Your LLC did not evade AZ taxes, YOU did. Whether AZ chooses to aggressively pursue these things, and whether they choose to charge you criminally vs. just demanding their back taxes plus penalties and interest is another story. Whether you, as an individual, have committed tax fraud though is unquestionable.
 

HighVoltOverland

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This will only be my second new car I’ve ever bought so I’m kinda ignorant to this

Is the registration be based off mark/ sales price/ difference after any trade ins?
 

Gator42

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Do any of the following apply to you? If it would be illegal under Arizona law to register your vehicle in another state.
There's one amazing bullet point there, Arizona. Specifically:

You work in Arizona (other than for seasonal agricultural work)

...Yikes. That means the Bruins all have to register their cars in Arizona because they played the Coyotes last night...and according to AZ the Bruins did work there since the state is more than happy to collect the income tax for the days work.*

*(Unfortunately for them, if the Bs play like S**t it still doesn't qualify as agricultural work...)
 

mpp

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I live in Montana, and I bought an exotic car from a dealer in Florida once. I made the transaction online, not at the actual dealership.

When I gave them my Montana address for tax/title/registration, they wouldn't believe me that I actually live in Montana. They required me to submit a real estate tax bill and a utility bill with my name on it as well as copy of my driver's license to prove I wasn't trying to scam the state out of the sales tax. The salesperson told me the dealer itself had gotten in trouble in the past for knowingly registering cars to Montana LLCs for people to avoid the Florida 6% sales tax. I also learned in that transaction that Florida does not charge sales tax for people purchasing a car in Florida but registering it out of state. The state that the registration is in is the one that collects the sales tax.

It may be possible that the "dealer" (Rivian) could be in trouble for knowingly participating in a method to avoid the sales tax by registering the vehicle in a state without sales tax for the sole purpose of avoiding that tax.

My recommendation is if you wish to avoid paying sales tax, move to a state without one.
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