RIVIAN VEGAN LEATHER - Car & Driver - March 2022

[Trandall]

Firstly, I appreciate you for courteously welcoming counter-arguments. We need more of that on the internet!

My argument would be that they drew the line when they decided to build an EV, period. We are all well aware of the negative environmental impacts of mining for and building batteries, but the net environmental impact over the lifecycle of an EV is significantly less than a comparable ICE-powered vehicle. Was the seat material a purely "environmental" decision? Probably not, and I agree that cost had something to do with it. But based on the brand that Rivian is trying to cultivate - stay adventurous forever, chilewich mats, gardening workshops, using recycled ocean plastics, the 'forever' commitment, serving vegan(!) chili/curry at the press event, etc. - can you imagine them deciding to use real leather?

This is a fair point. Rivian would have probably had a more vocal pushback had they went with Leather so I'm not at all surprised in the decision. TBH the vinyl "pleather" in the R1T will probably be as good as the poor quality leather in my Honda Accord. My Subaru Ascent supposedly has leather but it's so bad I suspect it is vinyl. I'm confident it will be fine even though my preference would have been leather.
The "green" environmental aspect of the R1's is something you will not here me brag about. Driving around in a big, shiny, heavy beast of a EV truck as our daily driver (my use case) and commenting how it is better for the environment is an extraordinarily first world American view. Is it greener than an equivalent ICE truck... probably but that's not saying much. It's like eating an 1200 calorie southwest chicken salad from Chic-Fil-A and calling it healthy because you didn't get the frosty shake for desert.

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[Hexijen]

You will not convince me that Rivian made an 7000LB.+, 4 motor, 800+ adventure vehicle and decided that natural leather seating was the place to draw the line on being eco friendly. It was an economic decision to put it bluntly. I can't say for certain as I haven't driven an R1 for a decade yet but I would be shocked if leather isn't a superior product. I'm not even sure if it's ultimately better for the environment. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way but I would like to hear arguments that i'm wrong.

Perhaps economics went into it, but RJ Scaringe is vegan, and the entire car is vegan, and one of the rivian employee's at the car show suggested that it was an intentional decision on his part, when I asked about leather.

 

[E.S.]

Fug et. Make it from hemp. Those California bois will love that while they're driving - "Hey man, I'm flashing baaaaccck!"

 

[emoore]

This is a fair point. Rivian would have probably had a more vocal pushback had they went with Leather so I'm not at all surprised in the decision. TBH the vinyl "pleather" in the R1T will probably be as good as the poor quality leather in my Honda Accord. My Subaru Ascent supposedly has leather but it's so bad I suspect it is vinyl. I'm confident it will be fine even though my preference would have been leather.
The "green" environmental aspect of the R1's is something you will not here me brag about. Driving around in a big, shiny, heavy beast of a EV truck as our daily driver (my use case) and commenting how it is better for the environment is an extraordinarily first world American view. Is it greener than an equivalent ICE truck... probably but that's not saying much. It's like eating an 1200 calorie southwest chicken salad from Chic-Fil-A and calling it healthy because you didn't get the frosty shake for desert.

Not everyone is going to drive a Leaf just like not everyone is going to drive a Prius. If we wait until people choose the best environmental option we are totally screwed. A heavy EV truck is the compromise we have to make to survive.

 

[skyote]

Personally, I've never watched Vegan XXX but, you have my attention.

I'm sure there won't be enough meat for some viewers.

I hope not. I like my XXX to be authentic as possible, 'Vintage' even ?

Vintage (70s?) is definitely not my style. I prefer it like my leather...smooth.

 

[protamine]

Does anyone else think that the term "vegan leather" is terrible branding?

Vegan XXX is never even remotely similar to XXX. Even if it tastes fine, it is a huge disappointment when you are hoping it would be similar to the product they claim it is meant to replace.

I love the fake leather seats in my Tesla. I like it a lot more than any of the real leather seats I had previously. I expect that Rivian's seats will be lovely as well. But including the word vegan in the product name makes it sound like an inferior imitation.

They need branding like Alcantara. When you hear that you don't think "sub-par fake suede", you think "ohh that is a nice material".

Except for the fact that Porsche doesn't call it that anymore. Its Race Tex (which I abhor the name)

 

[moosehead]

We have run through various ways to describe and market plastic skins in both the automotive and boating business.​

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Vinyl, Naugahyde, Alacantra, Pleather, Cool Feel, Race Tex, Vegan Leather, etc.​

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None of them sound or feel like real leather, IMO. All of them tend to create a swampy grundle. Just sayin.​

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[Gavinmcc]

here's to hoping the ventilated seats fight off the swampy grundle (which is not a sentence I thought I would type today).

 

[Taycanfrank]

My argument would be that they drew the line when they decided to build an EV, period. We are all well aware of the negative environmental impacts of mining for and building batteries, but the net environmental impact over the lifecycle of an EV is significantly less than a comparable ICE-powered vehicle.

This is strictly false.

The R1T/R1S will have a worse environmental impact than a smaller ICE vehicle. If you're really, truly buying a vehicle for eco reasons you should be buying a smaller ICE or hybrid. There are plenty of independent studies showing how current EVs are nowhere near as eco-friendly as advertised. Especially one with a massive, massive battery.

The point of EVs being eco-friendly is that should we continue down the path of electric vehicles they eventually can be. Specifically when we move away from Lithium batteries and when electricity is green in more locations. Most locations in the US use dirty electricity so plugging your car in isn't magically more eco-friendly than gas.

As for "vegan leather" it's convenient for being both cheaper and more marketable. Whether it's truly more eco-friendly depends on a lot of factors, obviously Rivian will say that it is but unless an independent study looks at it who knows.

 

[jjwolf120]

This is strictly false.

No it isn't. He specified a comparable ICE vehicle.

 

[crashmtb]

Except for the fact that Porsche doesn't call it that anymore. Its Race Tex (which I abhor the name)

Because alcantara is a trademarked brand name. If you’re not buying alcantara from Toray, you can’t call it that.

 

[sevengroove]

No it isn't. He specified a comparable ICE vehicle.

Thank you. For someone ready to whip out Ctrl B in their response, they didn't do a good job reading what they were responding to.

The R1T/R1S will have a worse environmental impact than a smaller ICE vehicle. If you're really, truly buying a vehicle for eco reasons you should be buying a smaller ICE or hybrid. There are plenty of independent studies showing how current EVs are nowhere near as eco-friendly as advertised. Especially one with a massive, massive battery.

Have you heard of the saying "perfection is the enemy of the good"? Because it seems to me like that's what you're describing. Current EVs are not as eco-friendly as they should be - agreed. So what? We do nothing and keep emitting pollution from our ICE vehicles until someone designs the perfect EV?

The majority of the population is never going to buy a vehicle truly for eco reasons. That's precisely why we need to meet them where they are with solutions that allow them to do what they want while having an overall lower environmental impact than what they were using. Is the F-150 Lightning the most efficient EV? Hell no, but I would rather a contractor use that as opposed to sticking with their existing truck that gets them 10-15 mpg. Especially because they are not going to compromise on vehicle size and functionality for the sake of the environment. We need as many options as possible across a broad spectrum of vehicle types as possible.

If you want to convince America that driving in general is bad for the environment and we need to be moving towards mass transit / walking / biking, then good luck, and you have my full support. That's the lowest environmental impact option IMO. But until that happens, we have to meet folks where they are, and that involves designing and producing aerodynamically inferior EVs like trucks to fill a specific purpose.

 

[E.S.]

Vintage (70s?) is definitely not my style. I prefer it like my leather...smooth.

Das'a gunna be a LOT of lotion ?

 

[Dark-Fx]

This is strictly false.

The R1T/R1S will have a worse environmental impact than a smaller ICE vehicle. If you're really, truly buying a vehicle for eco reasons you should be buying a smaller ICE or hybrid. There are plenty of independent studies showing how current EVs are nowhere near as eco-friendly as advertised. Especially one with a massive, massive battery.

The point of EVs being eco-friendly is that should we continue down the path of electric vehicles they eventually can be. Specifically when we move away from Lithium batteries and when electricity is green in more locations. Most locations in the US use dirty electricity so plugging your car in isn't magically more eco-friendly than gas.

As for "vegan leather" it's convenient for being both cheaper and more marketable. Whether it's truly more eco-friendly depends on a lot of factors, obviously Rivian will say that it is but unless an independent study looks at it who knows.

Strictly false eh? Alright, lets see some reliable sources to back up your strictness. Make sure they include well-to-wheel calculations for oil and electric energy sources.

 

[ESTRUCK]

I just pre ordered my ECO Friendly EV. 1 Horsepower, MAX PACK, ADVENTURE PACK and can do a tank turn ... well sort of close enough!

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