How long is "longer range" R1S - any intel?

Wanderer

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I think it will be hard for the Rivians to be as efficient as your Etron given their size and weight. But maybe they will be. I hope so. Maybe Rivian could actually release real range estimates instead of their general ratings. They say the results are being validated, but I don't think they need to be validated before Rivian releases them. Rivian knows the range, so why are they not sharing?
The e tron weighs more than a Ram 1500 at like 5,700 lbs curb weight. Both Rivians are about 5,800lbs so pretty close.

Rivian has released their range estimates, it’s 300 miles. The EPA might be different, just like John Doe’s might be different.





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mkhuffman

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The e tron weighs more than a Ram 1500 at like 5,700 lbs curb weight. Both Rivians are about 5,800lbs so pretty close.

Rivian has released their range estimates, it’s 300 miles. The EPA might be different, just like John Doe’s might be different.
Even though the EPA range has lots of issues (like the highway range test is not realistic), it is still a common benchmark for comparing BEVs. I have been following Rivian since their big reveal a couple years ago when they announced their trucks will have 400+ miles of range. So yes, they have released range estimates but I think they have enough data now and certainly know the EPA range estimates. I would like to know what the "+" means. Is their EPA range estimate 402 miles, or 420 miles? Probably more like 402 miles, which is still great BTW. Awesome actually.
 

Wanderer

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I hear ya. Personally though, I’ve lived with 200mi so anything more than that is fine with me.
 

ajdelange

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Even though the EPA range has lots of issues (like the highway range test is not realistic), it is still a common benchmark for comparing BEVs.
 

R1S Maineiac

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we've seen the before. Tesla routinely sandbags things to prevent cannibalizing sales of vehicles currently for sale. Rivian would be in trouble if a large chunk of LE buyers ended up waiting for the Max Pack.
 

ajdelange

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we've seen the before. Tesla routinely sandbags things to prevent cannibalizing sales of vehicles currently for sale.
Never seen this viewpoint. Most think Tesla somehow dupes the EPA in order to inflate their rated ranges.

Rivian would be in trouble if a large chunk of LE buyers ended up waiting for the Max Pack.
Indeed many of us have done exactly that. This reduces Rivian's need for scarce battery cells and rather than creating a problem for them has probably solved a major one. I'm just afraid Tesla is going to wind up doing the same thing with the CT. Actually they appear to have done so with the Plaid S Long range.
 

R1S Maineiac

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Never seen this viewpoint. Most think Tesla somehow dupes the EPA in order to inflate their rated ranges.

Indeed many of us have done exactly that. This reduces Rivian's need for scarce battery cells and rather than creating a problem for them has probably solved a major one. I'm just afraid Tesla is going to wind up doing the same thing with the CT. Actually they appear to have done so with the Plaid S Long range.

OK, maybe not "routinely", but they definitely sandbagged Model 3 specs when it was in late development to keep people from cancelling S and X orders, and to not overwhelm their production ramp-up. (that part failed, though)
 

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Just for clarity, not trying to imply anything with this question but, my understanding is that Rivian has released no official or definitive information regarding range or pack size for any configuration. does anyone have current info I have missed? We also don't know if the old references to 180KW, 135KW and 105KW were intended to mean total or useable capacity. We also don't know if the estimated ranges of 400+, 300+ miles were for only the most efficient trim/ options or the least efficient, middle of the road etc...
Range is one of the key specification when buying/ selling an EV Rivian has deliberately walked back their earlier statements regarding both battery capacity and range, less info is given now than in 2019 or at least the wording has been modified to be less specific and caveats have been added.
I believe Rivian is witholding this info until they have to release it as they feel that is their best strategy for whatever reason.
 

ajdelange

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Battery pack size numbers have disappeared in the Tesla and Rivian worlds at least. That is clearly because they are subject to misinterpretation and there is certainly no dearth of people on these forums who are doing just that. Rivian used to say that the largest battery pack was 180 kWh and they still say that the EPA range is going to be around 400 miles. Taking the ratio of those two numbers we would get rated consumption of 450 miles which is a reasonable number for a vehicle like the R1T. Starting with what we know today which is that the EPA range is going to be about 400 miles and assuming that consumption is going to be 400 - 500 Wh/mi we quickly calculate that the battery discharge capacity is between 160 and 200 kWh. Given that this is consistent, more or less, with the earlier published capacity of 180 kWh we are comfortable.

Range is the most important consideration. Because of that Rivian will "tune" the battery to deliver range consistent with what they have been claiming rather than the other way around. Do you really care how big the battery pack is? You will be able to figure that out as soon as you have driven your truck for a while. Rivian would be nuts to reveal any details about the battery. There would emerge some lawyer somewhere who would figure out some way to show that they were misleading in whatever reasonable number they published.

Battery capacity is a pretty intricate subject when all the nuances are considered. A manufacturer can change the capacity, and thus the range delivered, simply by redefining the voltages that represent empty and full. And you can't have any battery size you want. The battery is made up of bricks and the finite set of battery sizes is quantized according to the brick size.
 

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Agree with the last post in that I ultimately don't care (too much) about batt. capacity I was more trying to indicate the lack of reference we have to any battery spec. aside from 140 miles of range added in 20 minutes on RAN (or whatever it was). and the fact that it's been amended to be deliberately less specific. Compared with HP and torque #'s that have been revised upwards from original info as has fording height and details on the Merridian stereo seem as over delivered. With EPA numbers i'm mentally preparing to be underwhelmed. To play devils advocate I guess one could say the same thing about crash test ratings but it's for whatever reason not the hot button issue the range is.
 

ajdelange

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The fewer specific pieces of information you are given the fewer points on which you can "attack" the company with attack ranging from competition on numbers to lawsuits. Thus, much as I hate it, I can't really blame the companies for holding everything close the chest.

Do prepare to be underwhelmed with respect to EPA range. The EPA number is meant to be a benchmark but people stubbornly refuse to accept that and interpret it as the distance they should be able to drive at 75 mph. There are 5 tests. If an OEM does all 5 he tends to get a higher number than if he only does the 2 minimum required. You would think that everyone would do all 5 in order to be able to publish the largest number possible but if an OEM does that the numbers that drivers realize in the real world are diminished by a greater percentage than the numbers of his bretheren who have done only the minumum. Thus how underwhelmed you are with Rivian's final EPA rating will depend on whether they are doing all or just the minimum tests.
 

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