HiRes Audio and Sources

[pc500]

Here's the Apple MusicKit API for Android reference:

https://developer.apple.com/musickit/android/

Specfically, take a look at the MediaPlayerController in the com.apple.android.music.playback.controller namespace.

There are multiple ways to queue items for playback, but this function would be of note:
void prepare(@NonNull com.apple.android.music.playback.queue.PlaybackQueueItemProvider queueProvider, boolean playWhenReady)

Thanks for this. Your previous response was to the general apple Music JSON API, which does not provide this. The Musickit SDK/API for Android does. This is new since WWDC 2022.

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[pc500]

Don’t believe your lyin’ eyes, fellas. @pc500 knows way more about Apple’s APIs than the Apple developer website.

Hey Guys -- appreciate the feedback and thanks for pointing out this new API. To be fair, third party android app playback was introduced 3 months ago during WWDC 2022, so I'm not surprised I was not aware of this. The last time this conversation was had what I said was true and I did not know things changed since March!

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10148/

This aside, the updated musickit API is essentially an Android SDK and is not a general purpose API. It does now, explicitly, allow third party playback on Android mobile applications.

Apple has not, however, released a full API -- they require you to use their devkit. In other words, your options are javascript (with their playback widget) or Android Mobile.

There is potential Rivian could use this. They couldn't develop against it if they were just Linux or some embedded system in general, but since we believe they run android automotive it might be possible to access the SDK on a non traditional android device.

It actually wouldn't be that hard at all.

What will be interesting is to see the licensing terms its usage. I cannot find them on apple's site nor an easy google. Can they be integrated into a third party non android mobile product you sell? Since they want me to sign up for a developer account to download the license, I didn't bother.

I want to point our the relatively generic JSON API Spotify provides openly that easily allows integrations -- we don't see this yet from others:
https://developer.spotify.com/documentation/web-api/

 

[astonius]

Hey Guys -- appreciate the feedback and thanks for pointing out this new API. Third party playback was introduced 3 months ago during WWDC 2022, so I'm not surprised I was not aware of this. The last time this conversation was had what I said was true and I did not know things changed since March!

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10148/

This aside, the new musickit API is essentially an Android SDK and is not a general purpose API. It does now, explicitly, allow third party playback on Android mobile applications.

Apple has not, however, released a full API -- they require you to use their devkit. In other words, your options are javascript (with their playback widget) or Android Mobile.

There is potential Rivian could use this. They couldn't develop against it if they were just Linux or some embedded system in general, but since we believe they run android automatic it might be possible to access the SDK on a non traditional android device.

What will be interesting is to see the licensing terms its usage. I cannot find them on apple's site nor an easy google. Can they be integrated into a third party non android mobile product you sell?

There’s a web version as well, so it’s OS-agnostic: https://js-cdn.music.apple.com/musickit/v3/docs/index.html

This was available in 2018: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/506/

 

[pc500]

https://developer.apple.com/musickit/

Awesome, this is great news!

There’s a web version as well, so it’s OS-agnostic: https://js-cdn.music.apple.com/musickit/v3/docs/index.html

This was available in 2018: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/506/

The web version of it requires essentially, rendering in a web browser and hosting on a website using their javascript. It's not really suitable for an automative use case. This is similar to what Amazon did to play Youtube on the Echo Show (they rendered it in a web browser) before Youtube banned them .

Anyways, I wouldn't build a custom automotive app out of this unless I could get the media stream file alone, or allowances for usage of the javascript library outside a browser.

JSON API, or SDK for their development language -- plus permissive licensing agreement -- is needed.

 

[astonius]

The web version of it requires essentially, rendering in a web browser and hosting on a website using their javascript. It's not really suitable for an automative use case. This is similar to what Amazon did to play Youtube on the Echo Show (they rendered it in a web browser) before Youtube banned them .

Anyways, I wouldn't build a custom automotive app out of this unless I could get the media stream file alone, or allowances for usage of the javascript library outside a browser.

JSON API, or SDK for their development language -- plus permissive licensing agreement -- is needed.

Was Amazon using a publicly available SDK? Sounds like not, which is likely why they were blocked. Plenty of JS desktop apps run just fine in Electron, so I fail to see how automotive is any different.

 

[pc500]

Was Amazon using a publicly available SDK? Sounds like not, which is likely why they were blocked. Plenty of JS desktop apps run just fine in Electron, so I fail to see how automotive is any different.

In this case, Amazon just opened a web browser directly at the Youtube mobile URL. I do not believe they used a SDK. In either case, while Google probably did have a public SDK, it's unlikely Google would have permitted this usage on a licensing basis to another smart home device.

 

[powerplyer]

Hello sorry to "wake-up" this thread but has anyone found a solution to listen to your own music vs some streaming service? I have a lot of FLAC and MP3 music. I don't want to use my Android phone via a Bluetooth connection.

I was looking at this as an option, but unsure of the delay from the car start to playing music (where I left off) without intervention.

Option: https://a.co/d/50MIRLy

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Like most audiophiles, I am a little irked that we can not play music from USB. I have a 2015 car that has no issue when I plug in a USB.

 

[godfodder0901]

Hello sorry to "wake-up" this thread but has anyone found a solution to listen to your own music vs some streaming service? I have a lot of FLAC and MP3 music. I don't want to use my Android phone via a Bluetooth connection.

I was looking at this as an option, but unsure of the delay from the car start to playing music (where I left off) without intervention.

Option: https://a.co/d/50MIRLy

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Like most audiophiles, I am a little irked that we can not play music from USB. I have a 2015 car that has no issue when I plug in a USB.

That device still uses Bluetooth to connect to your vehicle. There are no real 'lossless' Bluetooth codecs, especially for 4.0. Even Qualcomm's APTx Lossless is only 1.2mbps, while standard CDs are 1.44mbps. And many of those so called 'lossless' codecs require specific hardware in both devices to support it. That listing looks like a scam.

 

[powerplyer]

Thanks for the heads up. I assume the Rivian Bluetooth is 5.0. I guess I will just keep hopeing Rivian eventually adds USB Audio capability.

 

[godfodder0901]

Thanks for the heads up. I assume the Rivian Bluetooth is 5.0. I guess I will just keep hopeing Rivian eventually adds USB Audio capability.

It is, but we don't know exactly what codecs are supported.

 

[superfluid]

I believe Rivian will eventually allow for USB audio. It’s strange they didn’t from the start, especially since they appear to have added a decent audio system, but here we are.

The other question if this does ever happen is whether the Meridian amp and speakers are hi res capable? They sound pretty clean and powerful to me but I only got to play with it for a few minutes.

In case this hasn't been mentioned, the idea of "high res audio" doesn't apply to amps and speakers. Amps and speakers get analog signals (voltage changes) regardless of the resolution of the source. The DAC (digital to analog converter) determines whether a system is "high res capable." A system is considered "high res" if it can mathematically convert a digital source with a resolution higher than 44.1 kH/16-bit into an analog waveform. With streaming, resolution is measured in kbps, but in either case, a DAC has to convert a certain amount of information into a wave form. The higher the amount of information, the more closely the output waveform matches the recorded sources.

But as a high-res audio aficionado myself, I'd say the resolution of the source plays less of a role in the quality of a sound system than many of its other components, such as how the system's frequency response was tuned and how well its crossovers were designed.

Playing back high-res sources on a poorly designed system is like looking at a high-resolution 50 Mpx photo on an old CRT screen with low pixel density—you can increase the photo's resolution to 500 Mpx and it won't look any better.

 

[COdogman]

In case this hasn't been mentioned, the idea of "high res audio" doesn't apply to amps and speakers. Amps and speakers get analog signals (voltage changes) regardless of the resolution of the source. The DAC (digital to analog converter) determines whether a system is "high res capable." A system is considered "high res" if it can mathematically convert a digital source with a resolution higher than 44.1 kH/16-bit into an analog waveform. With streaming, resolution is measured in kbps, but in either case, a DAC has to convert a certain amount of information into a wave form. The higher the amount of information, the more closely the output waveform matches the recorded sources.

Thank you for that more detailed explanation. I don't think that specifically has been discussed actually.

So allowing USB audio won't make a difference if the DAC used by Rivian cannot convert the Hi Res source into analog waveforms for the amp/ speakers? I don't know that we have any info on that particular capability in the Rivian/ Meridian systems... At least I haven't seen it yet.

 

[superfluid]

"high res audio" doesn't apply to amps and speakers. Amps and speakers get analog signal

Thank you for that more detailed explanation. I don't think that specifically has been discussed actually.

So allowing USB audio won't make a difference if the DAC used by Rivian cannot convert the Hi Res source into analog waveforms for the amp/ speakers? I don't know that we have any info on that particular capability in the Rivian/ Meridian systems... At least I haven't seen it yet.

Right, exactly. If the Rivian DAC can't convert a 92 kHz / 24-bit file into a waveform, then those files won't play.

USB audio is useful for reasons other than high-res, though. For example, it's useful to people who want to take their CD collection they ripped to .WAV files with them on the road.

But truly, the benefits of resolutions above CD quality (e.g. 44.1 kHz / 16-bit or 1.44 Mbps streaming) won't be very audible unless many other things are true first. For example, if the system is tuned to roll off frequencies above 10 kHz, or the speakers simply don't play flat past 10 kHz, then all the extra information provided by high-res files will get attenuated by the system anyway.

The system engineers might even have good reasons to do this, such as the fact that placing a speaker near a stiff boundary like a window reflects and reinforces high frequency sound back to your ear, increasing the proportion of high frequency sound you hear relative to everything else. To compensate for that, they might tune high frequencies down. But all of that is speculation until I run some measurements, which I plan to do in my R1S s00nish.

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