Ghetto method of powering the house with a Rivian

[Zoidz]

No need to tell me how stupid and dangerous it is and how I'm gonna burn the house down, I'm very much aware of dangers.
Moderators, feel free to lock/delete if this threads gets off course.

You say there is no need to tell you how dangerous this is, you are too careless of others safety to give a shit. Keeping your fridge and lights on is more important than a lineman's life, huh? All it takes is one momentary lapse to accidentally backfeed outside the house.

For others who probably actually care about safety - transformers work in reverse. "simply" backfeeding 120 volts into the utility will result in higher voltages on the distribution side of the line transformer, such as 4.16 kv or 7.2 kv. That's where the lineman work when a tree knocks out your power. You know what happens when you get shocked at those voltages? It's not like a 120 volt shock at all.

To discourage others from being this ignorant and careless about the safety of others, here's an example of what can happen. And if they find the person who did the backfeed, you can be charged with manslaughter. This is an excerpt from an OSHA incident report:

"Approximately 30 minutes later, an employee from the neighboring facility threw a manual switch connected to a generator to supply electricity to the facility's warehouse. The electricity back-fed through the ungrounded transformer 2 to where Employees #1 and Employee #2 were working. Both employees received an electric shock from the backfeed. Employee #1 was killed by electrocution. Employee #2 sustained severe burns to the hands. Employee #2 was transported by emergency services to the hospital."

I don't have a generator hookup and we're getting pounded right now by rain/wind, power is already flickering. Made this suicide cord and already tested it, everything is working good.

The old "No time to plan ahead and do it right, so I'll do it half assed" theory. Great.

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[Tony R1S]

* Rivian can consistently output about 1.4kw via its inverter, then if the demand increases the voltage starts to drastically drop. This is enough to keep lights, fridges, TV's and small electronics on.

How much does the voltage drop? When I tried to run my tiny 700W microwave it seems to struggle (strange and the lights are flickering). It's not an inverter type, so I know it duty cycles at 1kW.

 

[PhatDaddy]

I’m a non-electrician, but I have built and successfully used (still use) several ‘suicide cords’ with my small generator to more conveniently get through multi-day power outages over 30 years here in hurricane country. Disconnecting my house from the grid is always the first step. But I’m still a little confused by your approach… probably because I don’t understand the details. But if this limits me to no 240V loads and just what the Rivian inverter can produce (1500 watts), and all I’m expecting to run off this is a few small appliances and a few lights, why not just take the far less convoluted and dangerous approach of just running an extension cord (or several), maybe connected to a power strip (or several) from the Rivian outlets directly to those few appliances? This is the approach I would have always taken if I had had an EV with 120V outlets. Or skip the 240V approach (like I’ve done in the past with my setup): Shut off the main and all the breakers; find a convenient (reachable by an extension cord from the Rivian) outlet that is also part of the one circuit you want to power (fridge, lights, router, whatever); turn that breaker back on (Main is still off!); and back feed power via a 120V suicide extension cord from one of the Rivian outlets to power anything on that one circuit. Need an additional circuit? Repeat with another cord to another Rivian outlet. Am missing something? Not sure why I need to try to power both legs in my whole panel if I can only run a couple of things anyway. Help me understand.
Thanks.

 

[chrismc]

EVs aren’t really Florida Man’s bailiwick.

Just assumed it would say "location: FL" when I clicked on your bio, lol.

 

[PhatDaddy]

EVs aren’t really Florida Man’s bailiwick.

Hmm… is that so Mr. Seattle?
(18 years in Florida… then 15 years in Seattle… now back in Florida for many years… and now with my new Rivian

 

[Franksmartin]

Much safer approach: run extension cords to the 3 or 4 things you will be able to power from the Rivian.

 

[chrismc]

Hmm… is that so Mr. Seattle?
(18 years in Florida… then 15 years in Seattle… now back in Florida for many years… and now with my new Rivian

A man in Florida is not necessarily a Florida Man.

 

[PhatDaddy]

A man in Florida is not necessarily a Florida Man.

True Dat!

 

[PBRAZ]

Not sure why I need to try to power both legs in my whole panel if I can only run a couple of things anyway.

This. Also, navigating all of this during a storm seems like a recipe for disaster. Electricity no likey water.

 

[sac602]

Do you also like to lick frozen flag poles? (Me too!) This should be reposted in the "why women live longer than men" or "Darwin Awards" section. (I have a few posts about me in there too, im sure).

 

[Zoidz]

How much does the voltage drop? When I tried to run my tiny 700W microwave it seems to struggle (strange and the lights are flickering). It's not an inverter type, so I know it duty cycles at 1kW.

Microwaves are inefficient machines. I have seen more than one comment where the Rivian inverter can get wonky above 1000 watts load, which is what a 700 watt microwave consumes.

 

[glgoody]

Disclaimer - this is very dangerous so only attempt this if you know what you're doing or desperate (like I am). This is very much a last resort.

No need to tell me how stupid and dangerous it is and how I'm gonna burn the house down, I'm very much aware of dangers.
Moderators, feel free to lock/delete if this threads gets off course.

I don't have a generator hookup and we're getting pounded right now by rain/wind, power is already flickering. Made this suicide cord and already tested it, everything is working good.

This is very spicy so only attempt this if you know what you're doing.

First some theory. In the North American electrical system, there are two 120-volt lines that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, along with a common neutral line. This setup allows for two types of voltage supplies: 120 volts and 240 volts. When you connect to one of the 120-volt lines and the neutral, you get a 120-volt supply. However, if you connect across both 120-volt lines (ignoring the neutral), you get a 240-volt supply because of the phase difference. This is evident in your home's breaker panel, where there are two rows of breakers, each corresponding to one of the 120-volt phases. Appliances that require 240 volts use a 'double' breaker that spans across both rows, connecting to both 120-volt lines.

Now, since Rivian cannot output 240V at all so what we'll be doing is simply connecting the two phases together.

Before we begin here's some facts:
* Rivian can consistently output about 1.4kw via its inverter, then if the demand increases the voltage starts to drastically drop. This is enough to keep lights, fridges, TV's and small electronics on.
* The guide is for 14-50 outlet (240V) but any 240V outlet will work. 120V will only work for half of the electrical panel because your outlet is only connected to one phase.
* High-powered 240V appliances such as AC's/Heat Pumps and electric baseboard heaters won't work and can be damaged if you attempt to use them.
* This is dangerous on many levels because we'll be bypassing some built-in safety features.
* ALWAYS MAKE SURE THE MAIN BREAKER IS OFF! ! ! IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE MAIN BREAKER IS DON'T EVEN THINK OF DOING THIS !!!

First grab a good quality extension cord, thick contractor cords you can find at HD/Lowes, minimum 14 gauge. Also grab a 14-50 plug.

Cut off outlet portion on the extension cord and strip outer insulation. Inspect the wires and make sure they're proper gauge (a lot of fake wires out there lately)

Another reason to use good quality cord - they're properly color-coded. Black is hot, grey is neutral and green is ground. If it's not color coded, you'll have to tone them out with a multimeter.

Now let's take a look at our 14-50 plug

Idea is to connect black hot wire from the extension cord to both L1 to L2 and grey neutral to ground and neutral on 14-50 plug. We won't be using ground from the Rivian because that will trip on-board GFCI. This is how it looks like, I used scraps of 14 gauge copper Romex to bridge the connectors. Be VERY careful to not create a short circuit. After all set and done test continuity with a multimeter.

Here it is color-coded

Red = hot, green = neutral. Cut the ground cable off and tape it off with electrical tape.

What you end up with is called suicide cord because both ends of it are exposed. THIS IS DANGEROUS AND YOU NEED TO ACCEPT THE RISKS IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THIS!

How to use it?
Again, I cannot reiterate this enough, make sure the main breaker is off!

* Flip all breakers off.
* Make sure 120v is off in Rivian.
* Place the cord on the ground with both plugs close to their outlets. Think of the cord and especially plugs as a bomb.
* First because the 14-50 leads are way more exposed connect it first.
* Connect other end to the Rivian. Even though power is off DO NOT touch the leads on either end of the cord.
* Turn on 120v power in Rivian
* Flip breaker for the 14-50 plug that the Rivian is connected to, your electrical panel is now energized.
* Test power by flipping a breaker that only powers lights or small appliances.
* If above test is successful then flip the rest of the single breakers. Keep double 240V breakers off. If there's no power still then triple check your wiring.
* Keep power usage to minimum. No window AC's, no vacuums, no compressors.
* I put my sump pumps on battery backup (standard 1500VA you can get at Costco). When the pump kicks in the voltage drop is pretty drastic so the UPS switches to battery. I guess same thing would apply to well pump but I never really dealt with them.


To disconnect
* Flip all breakers off
* Turn 120v off in Rivian
* Unplug plug from Rivian and leave the plug right there, don't move the entire cord. Again, the cord is a fucking bomb.
* Unplug 14-50 plug.
* Flip main breaker on and then the rest of them.

Let me think about this ……. OH HELL NO!

 

[J-Flo]

This

… why not just take the far less convoluted and dangerous approach of just running an extension cord (or several), maybe connected to a power strip (or several) from the Rivian outlets directly to those few appliances? ,,,,

And this

Much safer approach: run extension cords to the 3 or 4 things you will be able to power from the Rivian.

Leaving aside risks to the house and the vehicle, the lives of others (utility workers) should not depend on whether someone has manually fully disconnected from main supply before powering up their home panel. (Relatedly, and especially for older houses, the main disconnect isn’t always the only link to the grid; it should be but isn‘t always.).

Thanks to the OP for the “don’t try this at home” story though.

 

[vandy1981]

Does it ever make sense to connect a 1.4 kW inverter into a home electrical panel? at best you're powering a single 15 amp circuit with that wattage.

 

[RivRyan]

Don't worry. I'm never doing this.

But in what situation would the main breaker board not be the only link to the grid? If that's true, it seems to me there are far bigger worries than what is going on for a day or two after a major storm, and it ought to get remedied right away.

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