EVSE stats from EnergyStar

electruck

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I tried to look at some of the more popular brands with models that would max-out Rivian's onboard charger (or come close). Unfortunately I couldn't get a perfect apples-apples comparison across brands but I think there is still some interesting data here. In particular the efficiency of the new Enel X product that I believe to be the new Juicebox 48 really stands out relative to the others. I had been leaning toward the ChargePoint Home Flex but I may have just changed my mind.

https://www.energystar.gov/productf...evse/compare/2341067/2318916/2361099/2344527/
 

OldEVGuy

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I like the Enel X products. I’m ready to buy the JuiceBox 40. It’s a plug-in model, and I want to be able to take it with me when I move. The JuiceBox 48 needs to be hardwired. They have $50 off until July 20th.
 
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I don't mind hard wired. I've been here 20 yrs and don't plan on moving any time soon. Yep, $50 off plus free shipping.
 

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Hardwired does not prevent you from taking it with you. Undo three wire nuts and add a cover plate to the box. Wiring will be in place for the next owner if they own an EV.
 

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Comments:
• EVSE consists of a contactor, some electronics to communicate with the car and some electronics to communicate with the Net (WiFi) or other EVSE units. As such they use very little power and are, therefore, all efficient.
•I'm thinking it is probably wise to wait a bit to see what kind of scheduling etc. capabilities are built into the vehicle's software rather than choose EVSE based on bells and whistles that may turn out to be provided by the car. For example, Tesla lets you tell the car when you want to leave in the morning. It will start charging such that it is complete at the desired departure time. There is, thus, no need to have the capability to do this in the EVSE itself.
•EVSE is connected by landing wires in a terminal block. No wire nuts. Thus when you want to remove one you will remove the wires from the terminal block. You will need to put wire nuts over the ends of the now unused wires or tape them and protect them from access in some sort of box.
 
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I agree about not needing a "smart charger" but what 48A capable charger options exist today? You can spend considerably more on a WattZilla product with no bells and whistles and which is not Energy Star compliant or you can spend less for a JuiceBox or ChargePoint. Are their bells and whistles going to preclude taking advantage of the Rivian's capabilities?

Sure, you could also wait to see what else comes to market but, for the moment, we can only assume the federal tax credit will expire at the end of this year.

As for efficiency, yes, the operating losses are measured in W but that adds up over time. If they didn't, the incandescent light bulb wouldn't be getting replaced by LED.
 

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I bet there will be an EVSE option or two in the configurator. If not, I would expect an offering soon after from Amazon for Rivian buyers.

I would hold tight & see what happens. Nov/Dec will still work for the tax credit, if needed.
 

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Tom Moloughney, a plug-in vehicle specialist, recently reviewed the first generation JuiceBox (made by eMotorWorks at the time) to the 2nd generation JuiceBox recently released and made by Enel X. He reviewed the 40 amp model. When asked in the comments about the 48 amps he replied that there is no difference between the 40 and 48 amp models beside the additional 8 amps.
"Reviewed: Enel X JuiceBox EV Smart Charger."

Also, Transport Evolved youtube channel recently reviewed the new JuiceBox 40 with an unboxing, comparing it to the 1st gen and then installing it by replacing an existing EVSE. Link starts 4 minutes into the video -
Sure, you could also wait to see what else comes to market but, for the moment, we can only assume the federal tax credit will expire at the end of this year.
I don't think that should be an issue "IF" Rivian makes the online configurator available by "late summer" as they been saying *and* it contains the info we're hoping it will, e.g. what type of charger/EVSE and adapters will they be providing, whether standard and/or as options.
 

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I agree about not needing a "smart charger" but what 48A capable charger options exist today?
Quite a few. The obvious choice for someone who already owns a Tesla or who contemplates adding one to his stable is an HPWC as they are relatively inexpensive and have rather sophisticated networking and management potential.

You can spend considerably more on a WattZilla product with no bells and whistles and which is not Energy Star compliant
Neither bells and whistles nor Energy Star is probably of much value. I wouldn't even think about Energy Star rating for EVSE but I guess it's a good marketing ploy for netting the gullible (as so many marketing ploys are). You would choose Wattzilla for their products' mechanical robustness. Stainless NEMA 4x enclosures cost money for sure but if you are installing outdoors in a nasty climate it may be worthwhile.

...and or you can spend less for a JuiceBox or ChargePoint. Are their bells and whistles going to preclude taking advantage of the Rivian's capabilities?
Nope.

As for efficiency, yes, the operating losses are measured in W but that adds up over time. If they didn't, the incandescent light bulb wouldn't be getting replaced by LED.
A LED light bulb taking 7 W produces as much light as a 100W incandescent bulb and represents a saving of 93 Watts. If that bulb burn 5 hr per day you save $22 per year at 13¢/kWh. For each bulb you replace. If you buy an EVSE that uses 1 W less than another that saves $1.14 per year. You should probably be more worried about the 120 W phantom drain of the BEV than the watt or 2 consumed by the EVSE electronics ($5.70/yr).
 
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If all the "smarts" are built into the vehicle, what are we hoping Rivian will deliver in the way of an EVSE that will be any better than other existing options? 48A via J1772 is 48A via J1772, there's really nothing all that special about supply equipment.

Just because they list something in the configurator doesn't mean they will be shipping them before the end of the year or that I would be able to schedule an electrician before the end of the year once I had the EVSE in hand. Around here I'm waiting 2-3 weeks right now just to get them to come out to provide an estimate on EVSE install plus other electrical work I need done. And the other work needs to be done now (as does wiring the new EVSE circuit). I don't want to have to pay for multiple service calls, multiple city permits, or open up drywall that is about to get patched and painted (or have surface mounted conduit running all the way across the garage from the panel). And I certainly don't want to miss out on the federal tax credit (something Rivian should keep in mind if they are planning to offer a 48A wall mount EVSE).

I just pinged Rivian about this, we'll see what they come back with in a few days.
 
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Quite a few. The obvious choice for someone who already owns a Tesla or who contemplates adding one to his stable is an HPWC as they are relatively inexpensive and have rather sophisticated networking and management potential.

Neither bells and whistles nor Energy Star is probably of much value. I wouldn't even think about Energy Star rating for EVSE but I guess it's a good marketing ploy for netting the gullible (as so many marketing ploys are). You would choose Wattzilla for their products' mechanical robustness. Stainless NEMA 4x enclosures cost money for sure but if you are installing outdoors in a nasty climate it may be worthwhile.

Nope.


A LED light bulb taking 7 W produces as much light as a 100W incandescent bulb and represents a saving of 93 Watts. If that bulb burn 5 hr per day you save $22 per year at 13¢/kWh. For each bulb you replace. If you buy an EVSE that uses 1 W less than another that saves $1.14 per year. You should probably be more worried about the 120 W phantom drain of the BEV than the watt or 2 consumed by the EVSE electronics ($5.70/yr).
Don't own nor will I ever own any of Tesla's current or known future offerings (don't interpret that as a knock against Tesla, their vehicles simply don't meet my requirements). I am not installing outdoors so I also don't need the "mechanical robustness" offered by Wattzilla. Don't care about "smarts" in the EVSE so that's not even a factor. That leaves the Juicebox 48 as the cheapest offering currently on the market unless you know of something else. Never said I would retire early off of EnergyStar savings but there's also no point in needlessly wasting energy. Unless I'm reading the EnergyStar site wrong, full current charging losses look to be a little more than 1W. If the other products offered a feature I needed, that would certainly weigh far more in the decision then energy savings. I'm just down to the point of splitting hairs between very similar products and right now the JuiceBox 48 appears to come out ahead in terms of TCO - primarily based on its currently discounted price - and it is available now.
 

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He reviewed the 40 amp model. When asked in the comments about the 48 amps he replied that there is no difference between the 40 and 48 amp models beside the additional 8 amps.
As I said in an earlier post, EVSE consists of GFCI circuitry, a contactor, vehicle communication circuitry and external communications circuits (UTP, WiFi or BlueTooth) in some models. When you plug the car in it is detected and communications take place in which it requests a certain amount of power and the EVSE replies with the amount of power allocated to it using information programmed into or received through the external communication link. When the box and car are in agreement as to how much power the car is to draw the power circuits are checked for stability and the presence of ground and if all is OK the contactor closes. Thus the earliest Tesla HPWC had an 80 A contactor as the most current it could under any conditions send to the car was 80 A. It didn't matter whether you bought the S with dual charger capability (80 A), an X with 72 A or a 3 with 48A limitation. You got the same charger and at installation it was programmed for the size of the circuit it was connected to. The philosophy is the same today. The manufacturer puts a 48A contactor in all his units. The individual ones are programmed for the current they will actually supply.
 

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If all the "smarts" are built into the vehicle, what are we hoping Rivian will deliver in the way of an EVSE that will be any better than other existing options?
Nothing! At least I am not. I'll be using Tesla HPWC.

It's all about marketing. Teslas charge perfectly well from any of the EVSE mentioned in these threads. But you can buy this spiffy, futuristic thing with a Cylon eye on it and even Elon's signature to display on your garage wall to charge your Tesla with if you want. Rivian will probably want to make something similar available for those that want a Rivian themed garage. If they are smart they will get one of the EVSE suppliers to build the equipment for them and house it in a distinctive Rivian appearing enclosure because, at the residential level....

48A via J1772 is 48A via J1772, there's really nothing all that special about supply equipment.
I don't want to have to pay for multiple service calls, multiple city permits, or open up drywall that is about to get patched and painted (or have surface mounted conduit running all the way across the garage from the panel). And I certainly don't want to miss out on the federal tax credit (something Rivian should keep in mind if they are planning to offer a 48A wall mount EVSE).
Amen to all that. I'm doing a similar project and the big question is not which EVSE are going in but where. What I'd definitely like to know from Rivian is where on the car the charge ports are so I can know where to run cable for EVSE. WRT that I'm telling the contractor to run 6/3 to all the likely spots in the gargage and just leave loops for now. When I know where the HPWC go I'll install them there and put 14-50R's at the other cable ends. Hence the neutral which is not needed for EVSE.

That leaves the Juicebox 48 as the cheapest offering currently on the market unless you know of something else.
No - as you said above they are all pretty much the same. I like the Wattzilla based on their robustness (I have a Mamba which rides around in the Tesla and will probably travel with the Rivian too).


Never said I would retire early off of EnergyStar savings but there's also no point in needlessly wasting energy. Unless I'm reading the EnergyStar site wrong, full current charging losses look to be a little more than 1W.
If you have EVSE that "wastes" a watt connected to a vehicle that is continuously wasting 120 W an engineer would say the watt is "in the noise" and that you need not worry about it. I'll also point out that you can't waste solar energy. It strikes the ground, warms it and it gets re-radiated at longer wavelength. If you put up a PV array on that spot and connect it to your EVSE that "wasted" watt emerges as heat which gets radiated having exactly the same effect as solar energy striking that spot before the PV array was installed.
 
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Have you checked out Clipper Creek chargers? They don't seem to be as big of a brand as some of the others but I've seen them several places around my city. I also spoke to the director of Alabama's Clean Fuels Coalition and he mentioned Clipper Creek and said that they were one of the best in his opinion. They also make a 60 amp version as well as one with two plugs on the same charger in case you plan on having two EVs in the garage. They are expensive but the seem well built.

https://store.clippercreek.com/featured/hcs-60-48-amp-ev-charging-station?sort=p.price&order=DESC

Edit: I now see that the unit I posted about was in the original link that the OP posted. I was on mobile when I opened it and could only see a couple of the products...
 
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ajdelange

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•EVSE is connected by landing wires in a terminal block. No wire nuts. Thus when you want to remove one you will remove the wires from the terminal block. You will need to put wire nuts over the ends of the now unused wires or tape them and protect them from access in some sort of box.
Have to correct myself here thanks to No. 14. The hard wired Clipper Creek chargers connect to the mains through a pigtail which is spliced to the wires from the panel in a junction box mounted near it. That splice could be made with wire nuts I guess but for something as big as No. 6 I much prefer these:
https://www.greenelectricalsupply.com/2-through-14-pre-insulated-in-line-splice-connector.aspx

Only downside is that they are big and expensive.

This may be something to consider. EVSE that installs with an internal terminal block makes for a slightly neater installation.
 
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