Does Driver+ (Self Drive) Work?

[RexRemus]

Thanks @jjswan33 and @mgc0216 - that does clear things up and it is a little disappointing honestly.

There are many local "mini-expressways" around here with long stretches of basically no lights, and speeds of 45-50 (which means everyone is driving 5-10 above that - highway speeds) where it's great for LKAS (aka highway assist in Rivian) to kick in and just remove the need for micro-adjustments but since those aren't "highways" they might never be "mapped". Clearly the hardware is capable (if much cheaper/older vehicles can do it with single front-facing cams) so it could be added via OTA (I am hoping as I don't get my R1S till next year) it's just surprising to see a vehicle in this class ship without something that seems mostly "standard" at 40-50k price points for the past almost 10 years.

Didn't mean to derail things from the main topic but the distinction between features has always seemed odd to me and I didn't understand the divisions between them. Thanks for the clarifications!

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[ERguy]

Driver+ is not even remotely close to what Rivian claims at this time.

Rivian is actively advertising Driver+ as a true "hands free" driver assistance system. Rivian's absolutely do require hands on the wheel at this time.

Driver+ is really far from being hands free despite Rivian's website claiming it is.

I've not used it yet, but the fact lane centering only works on mapped highways is proof enough it is years behind other companies.

The good news is that Rivian seems to frequently improve it's software with OTA updates, so hopefully they can catch up quickly.

I really like Ford's Bluecruise hands free system, and reviews indicate GM's Super cruise works well too. I've never driven a Tesla, but I'm not interested since I really prefer hands free driving on highways.

 

[SeaGeo]

Lane Keeping Assist - Will nudge you if you get too close to the lines
Lane Warning - Will alert or nudge you, depending on settings if you cross the lanes without a blinker

Wait a second, are you sure? I only remember Lane warning as a setting. Which I turned off because it's overly aggressive (or wrong) at times. Is LKA and lane departure alert different settings for you?

Rivian is actively advertising Driver+ as a true "hands free" driver assistance system. Rivian's absolutely do require hands on the wheel at this time.

I'm pretty sure they don't actually advertise that in the description on the website, thought it is implied in the videos.

I've not used it yet, but the fact lane centering only works on mapped highways is proof enough it is years behind other companies.

Not sure how that's "proof" since that's the same restriction as the two systems you described below. The by "hand on steering wheel" you literally just have to be touching it with the capacitive wheel, and I suspect they will eventually roll out true hands free given they don't seem to be using the IR camera at the moment as far as I can tell. How long did Ford take to roll BlueCruise out to the entire MME fleet by OTA? Nearly a year?

Functionally, even with touching the wheel, it's very similar to blue cruise and super cruise from a behavior standpoint compared to something like Pilot Assist.

Generally speaking, I suspect Ford and GM would consider their mapped implementation more "advanced" than their basic lane centering with driver intervention required.

I really like Ford's Bluecruise hands free system, and reviews indicate GM's Super cruise works well too. I've never driven a Tesla, but I'm not interested since I really prefer hands free driving on highways.

 

[jjswan33]

Wait a second, are you sure? I only remember Lane warning as a setting. Which I turned off because it's overly aggressive (or wrong) at times. Is LKA and lane departure alert different settings for you?

Yep I’m sure. The LKA option isn’t there unless you have lane departure warning on. When you flip it on the option is right below the alert type option.

 

[godfodder0901]

Wait a second, are you sure? I only remember Lane warning as a setting. Which I turned off because it's overly aggressive (or wrong) at times. Is LKA and lane departure alert different settings for you?

These are all part of the same system. Lane Departure can warn visually, audibly, or physically. You can pick and choose which alert type(s) you want. I keep them off as well, for the reason you mentioned.

 

[OverZealous]

- For some reason Driver+ needs to have my left hand on the wheel, it doesn’t’ recognize my right hand and starts yelling at me

I don't have this issue, I wonder if the conductivity on your steering wheel is not working. You might want to file a service request so they can check—could be as simple as a loose wire.

When I need to touch the wheel, it didn't matter which hand or what part of the wheel. And it seems if I keep a hand lightly on the wheel anywhere, it's enough to keep it happy.

 

[the long way downunder]

- For some reason Driver+ needs to have my left hand on the wheel, it doesn’t’ recognize my right hand and starts yelling at me

I don't have this issue, I wonder if the conductivity on your steering wheel is not working. You might want to file a service request so they can check—could be as simple as a loose wire.

When I need to touch the wheel, it didn't matter which hand or what part of the wheel. And it seems if I keep a hand lightly on the wheel anywhere, it's enough to keep it happy.

AFAIK, Rivian doesn't have touch sensitive steering wheels – it requires periodic (~20 seconds, undocumented) steering angle input to confirm driver attention.

Driver+ does not 'read' speed limits or have a database of speed limits (as of .19 doc

I'd suggest reading the manual, starting at page 100 for Driver+ (ACC, HWA.)

ACC is what I called "distance keep" (uses radar, available on any road)
HWA is what I called "lane keep" (available for mapped lanes)

Details of LKA "lane keep assist" are at page 116.
LKA is not part of Driver+.
LKA is available on any road (it uses the windshield camera to "see" lane markings.)

https://rivian.com/support/support-documents

The current state of Driver+ is simply woefully incomplete software. The equipment onboard the R1T and the design concepts of Driver+ are the same as Ford BlueCruise, which is the same as GM SuperCruise.

I assume Rivian has a software roadmap to bring Driver+ up to the same functionality as BlueCruise. I'm not aware of Rivian making any public statement on wholly missing functionality (e.g. self-parking, and low speed driverless operation like Tesla's Summon.)

 

[jjswan33]

AFAIK, Rivian doesn't have touch sensitive steering wheels – it requires periodic (~20 seconds, undocumented) steering angle input to confirm driver attention.

AFIAK the truck does not require manual steering input in Driver+. My understanding it is capacitive but I don’t want to start a debate as your experience and mine are apparently different.

 

[Scoiatael]

AFAIK, Rivian doesn't have touch sensitive steering wheels – it requires periodic (~20 seconds, undocumented) steering angle input to confirm driver attention.

Driver+ does not 'read' speed limits or have a database of speed limits (as of .19 doc

I'd suggest reading the manual, starting at page 100 for Driver+ (ACC, HWA.)

ACC is what I called "distance keep" (uses radar, available on any road)
HWA is what I called "lane keep" (available for mapped lanes)

Details of LKA are at page 116.
LKA is not part of Driver+.
LKA is available on any road (it uses the windshield camera to "see" lane markings.)

https://rivian.com/support/support-documents

The current state of Driver+ is simply woefully incomplete software. The equipment onboard the R1T and the design concepts of Driver+ are the same as Ford BlueCruise, which is the same as GM SuperCruise.

I assume Rivian has a software roadmap to bring Driver+ up to the same functionality as BlueCruise. I'm not aware of Rivian making any public statement on wholly missing functionality (e.g. self-parking, and low speed driverless operation like Tesla's Summon.)

Rivian does indeed have a touch sensitive steering wheel. Kyle from out of spec motors proved that in his driver+ review.

 

[godfodder0901]

AFAIK, Rivian doesn't have touch sensitive steering wheels – it requires periodic (~20 seconds, undocumented) steering angle input to confirm driver attention.

100% confirmed it does have capacitive capabilities and does not require any application of force.

Driver+ does not 'read' speed limits or have a database of speed limits (as of .19 doc

The system indeed does and can 'see' speed limit signs. Does it all the time, even for signs on the left side of the vehicle! Driver+ does not use that information, other than to display the indicated limit on the driver's display, but it can 'see' them.

 

[mgc0216]

Details of LKA are at page 116.
LKA is not part of Driver+.
LKA is available on any road (it uses the windshield camera to "see" lane markings.)

 

[LaunchGreen]

Thanks @jjswan33 and @mgc0216 - that does clear things up and it is a little disappointing honestly.

it's just surprising to see a vehicle in this class ship without something that seems mostly "standard" at 40-50k price points for the past almost 10 years.

You do realize that they have been shipping vehicles for just a few months, right? These systems require mountains of data and there are lives at risk - they are obviously going to start with a conservative release that they are comfortable with and then expand from there as their data set grows.

 

[RexRemus]

You do realize that they have been shipping vehicles for just a few months, right? These systems require mountains of data and there are lives at risk - they are obviously going to start with a conservative release that they are comfortable with and then expand from there as their data set grows.

Hands-off (or at least nearly) driving? Absolutely, yes. Something implemented on vehicles from the early 2010's? Not as much. Lane centering/highway assist level steering implemented with simple lane marker tracking that requires hands-on the wheel (hence taking away a lot of the safety risk on Rivian's side) shouldn't be something that takes significant effort to do after a decade or more of being fairly commonplace on vehicles with far less environment awareness and computational power.

I believe it'll come, I'm not someone who likes to come to places like this and huff and puff about how I'll cancel! (despite having no intention of canceling) - I'm just saying Rivian has segregated these features oddly, and it's a bit of a letdown that what seems relatively easy to do on vehicles costing half as much is not YET there. It'll come, I'm sure, I believe in them delivering it - but still, little sad it's not there at launch. That's all.

 

[mgc0216]

Hands-off (or at least nearly) driving? Absolutely, yes. Something implemented on vehicles from the early 2010's? Not as much. Lane centering/highway assist level steering implemented with simple lane marker tracking that requires hands-on the wheel (hence taking away a lot of the safety risk on Rivian's side) shouldn't be something that takes significant effort to do after a decade or more of being fairly commonplace on vehicles with far less environment awareness and computational power.

I believe it'll come, I'm not someone who likes to come to places like this and huff and puff about how I'll cancel! (despite having no intention of canceling) - I'm just saying Rivian has segregated these features oddly, and it's a bit of a letdown that what seems relatively easy to do on vehicles costing half as much is not YET there. It'll come, I'm sure, I believe in them delivering it - but still, little sad it's not there at launch. That's all.

This basically where I'm at. I feel like Eye Sight in my 2020 Subaru works better for LKA and ACC than the R1T - but I also think Rivian is building something much more complex than what Subaru is trying to do - so right now it's subpar (IMHO), but has the potential to be as good as almost anything else on the market.

 

[ERguy]

I'm pretty sure they don't actually advertise that in the description on the website, thought it is implied in the videos.

Sure they do. Here is a screenshot.

Not sure how that's "proof" since that's the same restriction as the two systems you described below.

It's proof because Ford, Kia, Hyundai, and many more do NOT have that restriction as you just stayed. They allow lane centering on all roads with lane markings... Not just mapped roads.

You are trying to compare Driver+ mapping to Bluecruise mapping, but that's apples to oranges. Ford's Bluecruise mapping only applies to hands free driving. All of the other aspects of Ford's driver assistance system is available everywhere... Including the lane centering. What part of that do you not believe?

Rivian is truly one of the only companies limiting these features to mapped highways.

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