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Autolycus

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While it's really unlikely, it could be they are using different battery chemistry that is less susceptible to damage when fully charge. Tesla, for example, says it's ok to always charge to 100% on their LFP chemistry Model 3's (which are only manufactured in China for the SR+ cars so far).
We have some evidence that they're using Samsung's latest high-nickel NCA chemistry. With the large packs that Rivian is using, they really can't afford the extra weight and volume of LFP. LFP is mostly going to be used in stationary storage, shorter range cars (where the energy density is not as important because the packs are smaller), scooters, etc. Cars looking for max range won't likely ever use LFP.

That would be interesting.

I'm guessing it's just miscommunication with CS. We will see soon though.
Or they're going to have a large buffer.
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ajdelange

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Curious what their answer was to that question .... what is the advantage (if any) of the Rivian charger - vs something more generic?
There wasn’t much news at all. Just being able to monitor on the app. I talked about only charging to 80% and they didn’t have any details other than the BMS would protect the battery
The advantage of the Rivian charger RE one of the generic ones is that it will have a nice Rivian logo badge on it and look really nice in your Rivian themed garage. It may have some bells and whistles that tell you, over the net (WiFi) how much energy you use, maintain a charging log, allow you to set timers etc. but these are all just that - bells and whistles - which are available from many of the 3rd party units too. Control of the charging process is done by the car.

learned I can turn down the amperage draw on the wall charger so I can use it in my underpowered garage
What you can do is change what you tell the car it can have. If you are wired behind a 50A breaker the EVSE must tell the car it can take no more than 40A. CS told someone here that this is done by setting dip switches in the unit at installation so you cannot control it. In fact it is required that you, the user, be unable to control it but this requirement seems to be often ignored as several of the 3rd party units (WallBox) allow you to dial this in.

I am sure that the Rivian App will allow us to set the max SoC we want from a charge. What I am not sure is that they will allow us to control the rate but that is only because Tesla doesn't. A third party EVSE that allows the user to remotely control the maximum draw gets around that shortcoming.

they also claimed it charges faster than many of the 3rd market ones. 48 amps
It does. It charges at the max rate the truck will take (48A) but many of the 3rd party units do too.
 

Trekkie

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I've owned three EVs. The first one was a Chevy Bolt. I plugged it in, let it charge until it stopped for three years I leased it. Never had an issue until the recall stuff started and they turned on 'hill assist' mode which capped the battery at 90%.

Tesla recommends 90% unless you're headed out on a road trip so I've followed that. They actually shut down regen and a few other things when you charge to 100% which changes the behavior of the car for a bit similar to when the pack is super cold.

Until we have some of the youtube nerds dissect and explore what Rivian does they could do a number of things. Audi for example puts 100kwh in but only gives you 88 of it out. This creates an excellent charging curve for fast charging so that you stay on the peak charge longer. So as more charger infrastructure is out there the less time you spend at the charger.

Looking forward to seeing what they did. Pretty bold claim from the team, so could be exciting.
 

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Trekkie

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??? Efficiency can't be that bad.
That's not an efficiency statement. They install a 100 kwh battery, but only let you used 88kwh of it.
 

sub

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SeaGeo,

When we got back to the Engagement Center at the end of the first night's ride along with RJ, I asked him about the range results and whether the All-Terrain tires impacted it much. In discussing that topic, he stated very clearly that they will be able to monitor everyone's charging and battery use patterns. He said, when warranted, they can and will perform OTA updates to release a small percentage of extra range for those who deserve it. He also made it sound as though that may be done without notification.
I think that "deserve" could be interpreted as people with bad luck rather than good behavior. Inevitably some people's batteries are going to degrade faster than average. They may be saying that they will unlock some of the reserve on batteries that degrade faster than they should have. If you car is reporting 250 miles of range instead of 300, you "deserve" a bit of a boost.

This strategy would allow Rivian to prevent or at least delay warranty replacements.

Oh no, this battery is getting close having degraded to the point were the we will have to replace the battery under warranty. Let's unlock 0.5% of of reserve each time they recharge. We can't do this forever, but it may keep the car above the magic line until after the warranty has expired.​
Perhaps I am excessively skeptical that any company could be honest and behave when $$$ is on the line.
 

ajdelange

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LagSwag1

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Does anyone know if we will be able to daisy-chain 2 rivian charges like I can with Juicebox? I have an R1T and R1S preorder and dont really want to put another breaker in my box for the second plug, so I was leaning towards ordering a pair of juicebox chargers since they can do loadsharing.
 

ajdelange

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Inevitably some people's batteries are going to degrade faster than average. They may be saying that they will unlock some of the reserve on batteries that degrade faster than they should have. If you car is reporting 250 miles of range instead of 300, you "deserve" a bit of a boost.
I'd guess it would be just the opposite. The reasoning would be that these batteries are more sensitive to SoC charging and that therefore they would want to limit the users access to the high SoC region. As I mentioned in another post Tesla restricted some users range to prolong battery life and got a law suit as a result.

Looking at it from the other direction is a different matter. Some batteries will degrade more slowly and/or some users will be more considerate of their batteries resulting in slower than nominal degradation. They might wish to make a bit more of the top end available to such users.

Keep in mind that "locking" and "unlocking" is simply a matter of changing where they put the 100% pointer i.e. at what voltage the battery is "full".
 

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ajdelange

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Does anyone know if we will be able to daisy-chain 2 rivian charges like I can with Juicebox? I have an R1T and R1S preorder and dont really want to put another breaker in my box for the second plug, so I was leaning towards ordering a pair of juicebox chargers since they can do loadsharing.
That you would have to ask Rivian. The newer EVSE seem to be moving in the direction of sharing. For example the Gen3 HPWC will, when the new firmware is enabled, allow you to share/control some number of them quite flexibly. For example, they don't even need to be in the same building. The bad news is that each requires a separate branch circuit, even if they are right next to one another. The WallBox Pulsar Plus allows sharing but I don't know any of the details. I think the comms are hard wired (as they were in the Tesla Gen2 scheme) and I don't know whether they can go on the same branch.
 

Autolycus

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In fact it is required that you, the user, be unable to control it but this requirement seems to be often ignored as several of the 3rd party units (WallBox) allow you to dial this in.
You know, I've been wondering about this code requirement. I completely understand why the code would want to prohibit the situation of a box being setup for 40A at installation and then being changed to 50A later by the user. What I don't understand is why it would be an issue for an EVSE that is setup for 40A to allow the user to specify a trickle charge of only 10A, for example.

Is there a reason EVSE's shouldn't be able to let users to do that (e.g. safety reasons)? Or is it just a matter of a rule being written in a broad way that might not have been necessarily broad?
 

ajdelange

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The code evolves when someone in one of the industries involved (these being the insurance and electrical industries mainly) perceives a potential problem, fills out the card in the book and sends it in. The problem in this area is that the technology is changing so fast the study, review, promulgation and publication cycles can't keep up.

In this particular case, how are you going to keep the user from changing the setting? In the G2 HPWC the setting was made with a rotary switch under a cover and that cover was held on with a couple of security torx. Time as when not just anyone could get security torx drivers but those days are long gone. Evidently Rivian is to have DIP switches. How will they be secured?

I can see why it would be in everyone's best interest to commission the units such that they can never draw more than 0.8 times the circuit capacity but I can see no objection to allowing the user the ability to dial in less than this. How do they accomplish both goals without advancing system complexity.
 

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You know, I've been wondering about this code requirement. I completely understand why the code would want to prohibit the situation of a box being setup for 40A at installation and then being changed to 50A later by the user. What I don't understand is why it would be an issue for an EVSE that is setup for 40A to allow the user to specify a trickle charge of only 10A, for example.

Is there a reason EVSE's shouldn't be able to let users to do that (e.g. safety reasons)? Or is it just a matter of a rule being written in a broad way that might not have been necessarily broad?
If it is user selectable, the only way it passes code is if the unit is installed on a line that supports the highest setting. If it is a 48 amp unit, it requires to be setup on a 60 amp dedicated circuit.

When the setting is inside the unit, they can install it on the available circuit and then limit the unit through the dip switches. That way a user cannot choose a setting above what the circuit is capable of.
 

Autolycus

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If it is user selectable, the only way it passes code is if the unit is installed on a line that supports the highest setting. If it is a 48 amp unit, it requires to be setup on a 60 amp dedicated circuit.

When the setting is inside the unit, they can install it on the available circuit and then limit the unit through the dip switches. That way a user cannot choose a setting above what the circuit is capable of.
OK, so it's not that "user selectable" is always a problem. It's that the user can't be allowed to select a amperage that would exceed what's allowed under the code. (32A on a 40A circuit, for example) That makes much more sense!
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