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CommodoreAmiga

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I'm going hard-wired on at least a 60A circuit -- but may go 80A or 100A if my panel has the capacity.

It's faster to charge, safer, more reliable than using a 14-50 plug, and if I sell the house I can easily remove it in 15 minutes, so the "plug in" benefit is nil, to me.

The only reason to go plug-in, imo, is if you will frequently move the charger, such as people who own two homes -- but at that point, you can probably afford two hard-wired EVSEs... so....
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DucRider

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95+% of users will likely be able to cover their daily charging with the included charge cable, Though not explicitly stated, a little math points towards it being 32A with a 14-50 plug. I already have 32 A (on a 6-50) and 48A (hardwired) EVSEs in my garage.
 

ajdelange

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Though not explicitly stated, a little math points towards it being 32A with a 14-50 plug. I already have 32 A (on a 6-50) and 48A (hardwired) EVSEs in my garage.
No math. Just that we would expect Rivian to give us at least what Tesla does and that's a box for the frunk which can accept a number of adapters the most useful one of which is the 14-50R. No. 14 explains why the 14-50R adapter only allows the vehicle to draw 32A in the Tesla implementation and why it will probably be the same with the Rivian.

Now for the math. A hardwired wall charger on a 60A circuit will allow charging at 48A (11.52 kW) equivalent to perhaps 22 miles per hour. At 32 amp the rate will be 32/48 = 2/3 that.

No point in going to a circuit bigger than 60A unless it's for a subpanel that is to feed several wall chargers. No one is, AFAIK, making a vehicle with a charger that takes more than 48A and, consequently, no manufacturer that I am aware of is making EVSE requiring a circuit bigger than 60A.

But there are still some older vehicles out there that charge up to 80 amps and it looks as if the Qudadzilla, that will charge up to 4 of those at the same time, is still for sale. If you bought one of those you would need 4 separate 100 A circuits. But what would you charge with it?
 
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DB-EV

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No - not really. OP has a 14-50R receptacle on a 50 A circuit. As was made clear in the responses at the time of the OP he will be able to plug in his Rivian charger and/or any EVSE made by Rivian or Watzilla or anyone else (except Tesla - they don't offer plug-in HPWC any more) into this outlet. This is Level 2 charging.


This has probably been covered in the earlier responses but it is, IMO, very unlikely that Rivian would give its buyers a charger for their 400-500 Wh/mi that is anything less than the maximum reasonable for something that is carried in the truck. The max. the car can take is 11.52 kW (48 A @ 240V) But that would require a 60 A circuit and as I mentioned in my post 60A plugin EVSE are not allowed under code. So that means the biggest adapter Rivian will supply (I hope with the truck - you have to buy it from Tesla though they used to supply it standard) is a 14-50R. This is because 14-50R are all over the place. But the 14-50R is exceptional in terms of the code in that it is legal to install it on a 40 A circuit. While it is OK to take 40A from a 14-50R on A 50A breaker if it is on a 40 A breaker you can only take 32A. Tesla's lawyers told them to drop the maximum current their UMC (Universal Mobile Connector) will authorize to 32 A as there is no way for it to know, when plugged into a 14-50R whether that's on a 40A or 50A circuit. Rivian has lawyers too. Thus, with the mobile connector most likely to be furnished by Rivian you will only be able to charge at 7680 W which means a rate of about 15 miles per hour. For faster L2 rates (up to maybe 23 miles per hour people will have to go to 60A EVSE which cannot be plugged in to any receptacle).
Now I know why people yell at you. : )

Your statement is consistent with mine. If you look at the full explanation, I said they only need EVSE. I had to make a choice to give a simple answer. They have what they need for the wiring/plumbing; they need EVSE. So, the only thing they do need, is something like a plug in chargepoint or juicebox, and to hook it up to a wall and plug it in.

As to charging, for a plug in (not hard wire), my math was in the range of l3.5 mil per hour on 50A circuit that would draw 40A (i.e. NEMA 50 plug that the poster has).
 

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DB-EV

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Now I know why people yell at you. : )

Your statement is consistent with mine. If you look at the full explanation, I said they only need EVSE. I had to make a choice to give a simple answer. They have what they need for the wiring/plumbing; they need EVSE. So, the only thing they do need, is something like a plug in chargepoint or juicebox, and to hook it up to a wall and plug it in.

As to charging, for a plug in (not hard wire), my math was in the range of l3.5 mil per hour on 50A circuit that would draw 40A (i.e. NEMA 50 plug that the poster has).
Sorry - the math I referred to is wrong. 40A draw on NEMA 50 would be 14.06 hours to fully charge, which is close to overnight.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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I say install a NEMA 14-50 & pick a plug in EVSE. The mileage per hour of charge difference betwwen that & maximum with hardwired EVSE on a 60A circuit is only around 4 miles for a Rivian.
Hardwired is more reliable and safer.

2020 NEC requires GFCI on NEMA 14-50 outlets. Most EVSE manufacturers warn that GFCI protection on circuits can cause nuisance issues with charging being interrupted. In many (most?) jurisdictions, hard-wiring the EVSE removes the GFCI requirement.

NEMA 14-50 outlets retain electrical connection even when the connector is slightly removed from the plug body. This provides a short/shock hazard. 240V is nothing to mess around with.

NEMA 14-50 outlets are not designed for many plug/unplug cycles. Most people don’t swap clothes dryers more frequently than once every several years. If you plug your EVSE in and leave it, then fine... But if you’re plugging/unplugging it many times you will weaken the retention mechanism and increase the risk of short/shock I mentioned, above.

So my issue isn’t necessarily that it’s a slightly slower charge... It’s there are safety and reliability considerations that make hardwired installations superior. If you don’t have a circuit, already, then going hard-wired will cost no more than running a new 14-50 outlet.

Also, consider that faster chargers are likely to come out. The ChargePoint Home Flex is even firmware upgrade-able to support faster charging, down the road. Running high gauge wiring may be desirable for some (me) but it’s by no means a requirement for all.

I would definitely encourage hard-wired installations anywhere they’re feasible, however.
 

bajadahl

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You are, I think, the only person here who has ever admitted to being wrong. I takes a big man to do that.

I admit to being wrong all the time!! Just ask my wife.... ?
 

ajdelange

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NEMA 14-50 outlets retain electrical connection even when the connector is slightly removed from the plug body. This provides a short/shock hazard. 240V is nothing to mess around with.
The beauty of our biphase system is that 240 is there but whereas one can see touching one of the parallel pins on a 14-50R he'd really have to work at it to touch both to get 240.

Actually the 14-50R has three parallel pins so I mean it's hard to touch X and Y.
 
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Mjhirsch78

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I am currently thinking Clipper Creek plug-in HSC-50D dual charger for two EVs. 9.6kw full charge or half that if two cars charging at the same time. So one Nema 14-50 plug. It doesn’t seem a dumb charger is going to be a problem as we don’t have peak/off-peak rates here. The cars will have the charging schedules and whatnot. I love the idea of being ready for a second EV coming our way in a few years after the Rivian. Anyone with experience with dual chargers like that or other things I may not be thinking about?
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