Backup power - replacing a gas generator for now, V2H in future?

[BigE]

Rivian ups the game vs Tesla in that they're including 3 120v outlets (that's the case in the R1T - do we know for the R1S?). Tesla only has 12v outlets. We know there's enough output in the gear tunnel to power a 1,440 watt induction cooktop in the camp kitchen. That's 12 amps. Do we know if all outlets are on the same circuit meaning about 2,000 watts total, or do they have a setup like the F150 where total watts is something like 6,000 for the 3 outlets? This 6KW output would compare to a $1k gas generator. One of the benefits of the gas generator is that you can hook it up to a transfer switch to run the power straight into your home's circuits; whereas I don't think you can do that with the Rivian setup and you'll have to use extension cords all over the house (not bad tho for the occasional days-long power outage). Does anyone else plan to use the Rivian instead of a gas generator for storm outages, and is there a better solution other than extension cords?

Second, related topic, is forward looking. It would be amazing if Rivian had vehicle-to-home capability like the F150. It doesn't make sense to me that Ford would be the innovator here. What hurdle does Rivian need to clear to add V2H? Did Ford just choose to add a more expensive inverter to enable that output, meaning it's a pretty simple component swap for Rivian to enable this in the future? Or would this capability require more comprehensive adjustments to the battery architecture?

I've had multiple conversations with Rivian over the past 2 years about V2H and encouraging them to look at this. The R1T checks a lot of boxes for me and my family, but V2H and also a 30 amp outlet in the bed would allow me to power my house when needed and our small camper when on the road. The new Ford Lightning has a 30 amp outlet in the bed plus the V2H. How did Ford seem to surprise everyone with these great power ideas and more current tech than Rivian? I'm wondering if in part it's timing and customer audience? Rivian began the development of the R1T sometime in 2015 and then showed it in 2018. Ford began in 2018 on the F-150 Lightning and was simultaneously working on the F-150 Hybrid with their V2H and Power Pro approach. Looking at some of the electrical components, Rivian has for now stated they have an 11.5 kW onboard charger vs F-150 has dual onboard chargers giving it 19.2 kW. So Rivian, 16 miles in an hour of charge vs. 30 miles for the big battery F-150.

I guess once Rivian gets an R1T into the right person's hands, we will all learn a lot more.

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[johnbro23]

You just don't use your heaviest draw appliances during an outage. A standard fridge/freezer is 2kwh/day, LED lights/cell phones/TVs are literally nothing. The AC, an electric dryer, electric cooking, etc are the biggest draws. Rivian's mid range battery is around 100Kwh. So if you're really rationing to just fridge, microwave and the boiler, you'll use <5% of the car's battery per day.

Not having backup power means you have food spoilage, can't charge your phone, etc

To get full battery backup you'll spend $15-30k on a powerwall-like solution. Or $5-10k for a noisy huge gas generator. If your car can get you a "good enough" solution for minimal incremental cost, its really compelling

 

[ajdelange]

I've had multiple conversations with Rivian over the past 2 years about V2H and encouraging them to look at this. The R1T checks a lot of boxes for me and my family, but V2H and also a 30 amp outlet in the bed would allow me to power my house when needed and our small camper when on the road. The new Ford Lightning has a 30 amp outlet in the bed plus the V2H. How did Ford seem to surprise everyone with these great power ideas and more current tech than Rivian?

My guess is that Rivian didn't think people would be interested and that the relevant standards didn't exist.

Tesla doesn't do it because they don't think that's what a truck is for. But we have to recognize, cynical old dogs that we have become, that it would compete with Powerwall sales.

F-150 has dual onboard chargers giving it 19.2 kW.

Are you sure about that? The external V2H box has a rectifer/inverter in it. That is capable of DC charging the battery at 20 kW but that charger is not in the truck.

 

[BigE]

If you live in a hurricane-prone area as I due it makes perfect sense. During a Hurricane, we are prepped and locked down. I could have the R1T in the garage, battery full. Typically once we lose power it's out for 3-5 days, the town will be on curfew so no travel in or out is allowed. Roads are typically blocked with down power lines, trees, debris, etc. A beautiful thing, once a Hurricane passes, we normally have the most beautiful sunny sky's, thus my solar panels will recharge the R1T most likely before the power is even restored. So, to have the equivalent of ~13 Tesla PowerWalls sitting in the R1T in the garage, priceless!

 

[BigE]

My guess is that Rivian didn't think people would be interested and that the relevant standards didn't exist.

Are you sure about that? The external V2H box has a rectifer/inverter in it. That is capable of DC charging the battery at 20 kW but that charger is not in the truck.

Yes, it's on Ford's website. The Platinum trim will come with the 80 amp charger, installation cost included in the price, and external inverter for the V2H.

 

[ajdelange]

I wasn't questioning that. It is that the charger is in the 80 Amp charger hanging on the wall - not in the truck. There is, AFAIK, only one 48 A charger in the truck. What would be the point of having a second one in the truck?

 

[BigE]

I wasn't questioning that. It is that the charger is in the 80 Amp charger hanging on the wall - not in the truck. There is, AFAIK, only one 48 A charger in the truck. What would be the point of having a second one in the truck?

I've only seen what's on their website, and Ford states as you have, 80 amp wall charger, "allows a peak charging power of 19.2 kW enabled by the batteries dual onboard chargers".

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, that's what it says for sure and though that means that the thing on the wall isn't a "bidirectional charger" but rather an EVSE and an inverter we'll have to accept that it indeed has dual onboard chargers.

 

[jjwolf120]

If you have solar, you could charge it from your own solar panels.

 

[thrill]

The nearest place that has power.

 

[DucRider]

Rivian has for now stated they have an 11.5 kW onboard charger vs F-150 has dual onboard chargers giving it 19.2 kW. So Rivian, 16 miles in an hour of charge vs. 30 miles for the big battery F-150.

Yes, the F-150 will come with dual on board chargers in the highest trims, so if you have the capacity to install a 100A circuit for charging and regularly drive 300 miles a day and need to charge on a short overnight and do it again and again then there is an advantage to that. Tesla dropped that option years ago.
Rivian will charge at 25 miles an hour on a 48A EVSE so 10 hours will get you 250 miles overnight. A very, very small percentage of customers would need more than that.

But all of that is irrelevant to the V2H/G discussion as that utilizes the DC pins and bypasses the on-board charger(s).

Many people are interchanging V2L with V2H.
V2L is the 120/240V outlets on the vehicle (like shown on the Ioniq 5, Rivian, Lightning) and will utilize an inverter in the vehicle to convert the battery DC to AC outlet power.
V2H provides DC power to external equipment (with an inverter, cutoff, etc) to disconnect from the grid and use the existing house wiring to provide power. It could be configured for the whole house or only certain circuits.

 

[ajdelange]

If you have solar, you could charge it from your own solar panels.

To do it from solar panels that tie into the house you have to add some stuff in particular something like a Powerwall and a Gateway. The Gateway's job is to sense the grid and disconnect from it if it goes down. It then tells the Power walls to energize the house. In so doing it puts 60 Hz on the house wiring which signals the inverters to start inverting again. Solar energy then goes to the house loads which can, obviously, include EV. Any solar not consumed by the house goes to charge the PW. If they get full they shift the frequency of the 60 Hz which commands the inverter(s) to "curtail" i.e. produce less current. If the sun goes in the PW then start to supply the house by themselves which they do until the PW discharges to a certain point at which time they shut down and you are in the dark. All this stuff gets expensive,

 

[Hopper]

It‘s a different case if you live in a rural area. We rely on well water for cooking, bathing and sanitation. No electricity, no well pump. Yes, we have a portable generator, but having a whole-house backup for those pesky 2-8 hour outages would be great. Not running all the lights, just flushing, running a few lights and keeping the food cold. I can’t wait to have a vehicle that will do what a 15-20k generac installation would do for me. Just my .02

 

[jjwolf120]

To do it from solar panels that tie into the house you have to add some stuff in particular something like a Powerwall and a Gateway. The Gateway's job is to sense the grid and disconnect from it if it goes down.

I am thinking that you should be able to do it with just a Gateway (I could be wrong), thus saving the price of a powerwall. I would like to have both, but I am doubtful that the powerwall is worth the money for my situation. I have had only one significant power outage in the last 20 years.

 

[johnbro23]

Stumbled on this from another forum.. it can act as a huge powerwall!

https://www.[Banned Site].com/threads/can-a-rivian-power-a-house-during-an-energy.959/
Post #1
I asked Rivian about V2H and sent them this particular device...below is Rivian’s response.

Hello Eric,

Thank you for the reply, and though using a Rivian as a "power wall" is possible, however, we will be sharing more details about Rivian vehicles and their charging capabilities soon. I'll be sure to follow up if any additional insight is available, in the meantime please share any feedback you receive from the manufacturer in regards to this matter.

I hope you enjoy your weekend, and we'll talk soon.

Post #2
In order to get more power from the Rivian, it would need to be true V2H via the charing port. They have not confirmed this will be possible in initial production vehicles, but they did demonstrate something similar (with an external control box) in Long Way Up to do V2V charging. I hopeful they will have this at launch or possible via later OTA.

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