Amended return rejected

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Agree the ship has sailed for you. Fighting it further would be too taxing (pun intended). But for others who are just about to begin this tax amendment odyssey...

The 2024 model that you purchased only qualified for $3,750. This is a 2 step process in making the determination.

Here's the rebuttal:
https://rivian.com/support/article/...ev-tax-credit-using-a-binding-order-agreement

The IRS has now released guidance on how taxpayers with valid written binding contracts signed before August 16, 2022 can claim the original EV tax credit—without restrictions on vehicle MSRP, buyer income, and manufacturing requirements—even if they take delivery of their vehicle in 2023 or later*.

*tax return amendments cannot be done indefinitely. Please consult a tax professional for further detail.

This is their own guidance. Not mine. Nor Rivian's. It shouldn't be any taxpayers job to justify they IRS's own guidance to a member of the IRS.

2024 Rivan R1S available credit is $3,750 due to phase out of the credit from $7,500.

That is in context of IRA. Binding contract back dates your purchase to 8/15/2022 (precisely why they tell you put enter that as your in-service date). IRA was not signed into law until the following day. None of IRA's rules or restrictions apply, because it wasn't yet law. Binding contract = time machine. And with it you've traveled back to 8/15/2022 and amending as if you've traveled back to that date.

The appeal adjuster's rationale on '24 being ineligible is nonsensical. Car manufacturer's model year designation doesn't always correspond to actual year produced. A MY24 car could be produced same year as MY23 car; 2023. Their position that a MY24 doesn't qualify, while a MY23 does... that is just wrong.

Those who filed successfully: which 8936 did you use? 2022 or 2023 version?

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[kcko11]

Agree the ship has sailed for you. Fighting it further would be too taxing (pun intended). But for others who are just about to begin this tax amendment odyssey...



Here's the rebuttal:
https://rivian.com/support/article/...ev-tax-credit-using-a-binding-order-agreement



This is their own guidance. Not mine. Nor Rivian's. It shouldn't be any taxpayers job to justify they IRS's own guidance to a member of the IRS.



That is in context of IRA. Binding contract back dates your purchase to 8/15/2022 (precisely why they tell you put enter that as your in-service date). IRA was not signed into law until the following day. None of IRA's rules or restrictions apply, because it wasn't yet law. Binding contract = time machine. And with it you've traveled back to 8/15/2022 and amending as if you've traveled back to that date.

The appeal adjuster's rationale on '24 being ineligible is nonsensical. Car manufacturer's model year designation doesn't always correspond to actual year produced. A MY24 car could be produced same year as MY23 car; 2023. Their position that a MY24 doesn't qualify, while a MY23 does... that is just wrong.

This was my response, I’ll let you know what they say:

I appreciate your time in answering my question, but if you could perhaps clarify my confusion just a touch more, because it is the second step I would like to speak about some more.
I was under the impression that by placing my binding agreement and placing a deposit before the Inflation Reduction Act, the amount of credit I receive would be determined and governed by the rules that were in effect before the Inflation Reduction Act. And at that time, the rules that determined the amount of the credit would be as follows:
The credit equals:

· $2,917 for a vehicle with a battery capacity of at least 5 kilowatt hours (kWh)
· Plus $417 for each kWh of capacity over 5 kWh

The credit at that time was not based upon a specific model and year, I believe that only was initiated due to the new amendments put forth by the Inflation Reduction Act. And the new amendments that initially disqualified me (which included MAGI, battery component sources, final assembly and MSRP) which as you said, should not be dependent upon those requirement, why would also, the rule of the credit be dependent on the model year and make apply if the other rules should not apply as well? Should it not revert back to the original rule that the credit is dependent upon the the battery and each additional capacity thereupon, with the maximum being up to $7500?
Again, I am very appreciative of your time in reviewing and answering my case and questions.
Thank you

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

This was my response, I’ll let you know what they say:

I appreciate your time in answering my question, but if you could perhaps clarify my confusion just a touch more, because it is the second step I would like to speak about some more.
I was under the impression that by placing my binding agreement and placing a deposit before the Inflation Reduction Act, the amount of credit I receive would be determined and governed by the rules that were in effect before the Inflation Reduction Act. And at that time, the rules that determined the amount of the credit would be as follows:
The credit equals:

The credit at that time was not based upon a specific model and year, I believe that only was initiated due to the new amendments put forth by the Inflation Reduction Act. And the new amendments that initially disqualified me (which included MAGI, battery component sources, final assembly and MSRP) which as you said, should not be dependent upon those requirement, why would also, the rule of the credit be dependent on the model year and make apply if the other rules should not apply as well? Should it not revert back to the original rule that the credit is dependent upon the the battery and each additional capacity thereupon, with the maximum being up to $7500?
Again, I am very appreciative of your time in reviewing and answering my case and questions.
Thank you

When you placed your reservation has no bearing on any of this. The reservation itself has no bearing.

Binding agreement that you signed is everything that matters. By signing, you agreed that $100 of your $1000 reservation became non-refundable and is the "significant" downpayment IRS required for the purchase agreement to be binding. And, the day you agreed to this became the date you committed to buy. Search for discussions threads that dominated forums around August of '22 and you will likely find actual text from IRS and how they define "binding".

Please read link I've posted twice of IRS guidance. There are no model year requirements. There is only the disclaimer that there is a statute of limitations on filing any amendments (from the original tax return filing, "within 3 years of due date of original return or within two years after the date they paid the tax, whichever is later"). Guidance is literal and clear, with no hidden messages between the lines. That guidance came from the IRS. Rivian did not make it up.

I think the IRS personnel involved got confused and were treating your claim based on whether you were claiming under the IRA transitory period... or after. This transitory period refers to 8/16/2022~4/18/2023. This is the period where Treasury had not yet rule on whether the R1's battery packs had enough domestically sourced materials—to qualify for the full 7500 or partial. This is only relevant for those who bought/took delivery during that time but did not have a binding agreement. With binding agreement signed, no part of IRA should have been factored into their review or judgement.

Which version Form 8936 did you use? and did you enter 8/15/2022 as your in-service date?

 

[Mygrain]

I want to reinforce what others have said. An IRS publication called the IRS Fact Sheet makes it very clear.

A8: If you purchased or entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new clean vehicle after December 31, 2021, and before August 16, 2022, but took possession on or after August 16, 2022, you may claim the credit based on the requirements for the credit that applied on August 15, 2022, the day before the IRA was enacted. To do so, you are required to claim the credit on a tax return for tax year 2022. Depending on the date the vehicle is placed in service, you may claim the credit on an original, superseding, or amended return for tax year 2022.​

​

This guidance first appeared in March 2023 IRS Fact Sheet. For 16+ months, this guidance from IRS has been clear and consistent. The exact same guidance appears in the latest Fact Sheet published just 7 days ago.

​

$3750 for 2024 model year traces back to battery sourcing requirements introduced in the Inflation Reduction Act. On August 15, 2022, the EV tax credit had no requirements for battery sourcing (or MSRP or MAGI or country of manufacture, etc, etc.).

I have not yet received the $7500 credit that I claimed on my amended 2022 return. (IRS received my 1040-X on 1/4/2024.) Instead, I've received a letter from the IRS requesting that I cite an "IRS publication" that allows me to claim the credit in the year the contract was signed instead of the year the vehicle was actually delivered. I faxed a rebuttal that cited 4 separate IRS documents. I'm waiting for IRS to reply.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I want to reinforce what others have said. An IRS publication called the IRS Fact Sheet makes it very clear.

A8: If you purchased or entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new clean vehicle after December 31, 2021, and before August 16, 2022, but took possession on or after August 16, 2022, you may claim the credit based on the requirements for the credit that applied on August 15, 2022, the day before the IRA was enacted. To do so, you are required to claim the credit on a tax return for tax year 2022. Depending on the date the vehicle is placed in service, you may claim the credit on an original, superseding, or amended return for tax year 2022.​

​

This guidance first appeared in March 2023 IRS Fact Sheet. For 16+ months, this guidance from IRS has been clear and consistent. The exact same guidance appears in the latest Fact Sheet published just 7 days ago.

​

$3750 for 2024 model year traces back to battery sourcing requirements introduced in the Inflation Reduction Act. On August 15, 2022, the EV tax credit had no requirements for battery sourcing (or MSRP or MAGI or country of manufacture, etc, etc.).

I have not yet received the $7500 credit that I claimed on my amended 2022 return. (IRS received my 1040-X on 1/4/2024.) Instead, I've received a letter from the IRS requesting that I cite an "IRS publication" that allows me to claim the credit in the year the contract was signed instead of the year the vehicle was actually delivered. I faxed a rebuttal that cited 4 separate IRS documents. I'm waiting for IRS to reply.

Which version 8936 did you use?

 

[Mygrain]

Which version 8936 did you use?

The 2022 version (Rev. Jan. 2023) with two columns ... Vehicle 1 and Vehicle 2. I prepared my 2022 amended return on TurboTax in late December of 2023 and that's the version TurboTax used.

f8936--2022.pdf (irs.gov)

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

The 2022 version (Rev. Jan. 2023) with two columns ... Vehicle 1 and Vehicle 2. I prepared my 2022 amended return on TurboTax in late December of 2023 and that's the version TurboTax used.

Ah... so the version that was revised for sake of IRA and had questions pertaining to IRA's conditional restrictions. I think that's the source of problems.

 

[Mygrain]

Ah... so the version that was revised for sake of IRA and had questions pertaining to IRA's conditional restrictions. I think that's the source of problems.

No. The 2022 version I used (Rev Jan 2023) is essentially identical to the 2021 version Rev Jan 2022 except for the words "and New Clean Vehicles" in the subtitle.

 

[robertrivian]

Anyone have any thoughts on if it is even worth amending my return again as I had two binding agreements as I reserved 2 R1 models and currently own a 2023 R1S. I received the $7500 when I amended my 2022 return in August 2023. I am currently waiting on a 2025 R1S to be built (purchase confirmed) and wonder if trying to amend my 2022 return again for the new 2025 model will send up all kinds of flags even though each vehicle would come under the binding agreement signed August 11, 2022. I did use the August 15, 2022 as the in service date on the 8936 Form and the first one did sail through in less than 60 days. Has anyone used the binding agreement to get two R1 models and got both $7500 credits?

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Anyone have any thoughts on if it is even worth amending my return again as I had two binding agreements as I reserved 2 R1 models and currently own a 2023 R1S. I received the $7500 when I amended my 2022 return in August 2023. I am currently waiting on a 2025 R1S to be built (purchase confirmed) and wonder if trying to amend my 2022 return again for the new 2025 model will send up all kinds of flags even though each vehicle would come under the binding agreement signed August 11, 2022. I did use the August 15, 2022 as the in service date on the 8936 Form and the first one did sail through in less than 60 days. Has anyone used the binding agreement to get two R1 models and got both $7500 credits?

You cannot double dip. Max you can receive is 7500 for that year. No more.

 

[robertrivian]

You cannot double dip. Max you can receive is 7500 for that year. No more.

Where is that written? I’ve never seen where if you bought two cars with a binding agreement, it shouldn’t matter. Can you share where you saw that? Everything I read it is one per car not one per person.

 

[gokcabaga]

Agree, there isn't any limit to number of vehicles that I've heard of. In 2022 we bought a Leaf and signed the binding contract for the R1S. We got $7500 back upon the initial filing of 2022 taxes for the Leaf, and when our R1S was delivered this past January we filed 2022 1040X through FreeTaxUSA to get back another $7500. Refund by EFT didn't take long, I think within 6 weeks or so.

 

[Gratedwasabi]

You cannot double dip. Max you can receive is 7500 for that year. No more.

This is blatantly FALSE. Absolutely untrue.

There is no limit to the EV credits you can claim in 2022, they just have to be for separate qualifying vehicles.

The tax credit reduces your tax liability. So if you paid at least $15,000 in taxes you will get the full $7,500 x2 ($15,000).

This is not an opinion. It is fact.

Many people have successfully received the $7,500 for amending a 2022 tax return via a binding agreement. Follow the instructions linked earlier and submit digitally, and you're unlikely to have problems.

 

[Kylechoffman]

Just took delivery of a 2025 R1S. I have the binding agreement and am about to file my amended 2022 return using Turbotax. The problem with Turbotax (which I just updated) is that the model year of the vehicles only goes up to 2023. I assume I submit this electronically but it will get rejected based upon the model year not lining up with the VIN year. I assume the alternative is to print out the 1040-X, manually create another 8936 (2022 version) and mail it. I dont want to get into a dispute like I am reading above.

 

[gokcabaga]

The problem with Turbotax (which I just updated) is that the model year of the vehicles only goes up to 2023. I assume I submit this electronically but it will get rejected based upon the model year not lining up with the VIN year. I assume the alternative is to print out the 1040-X...

Our 2022 was originally filed with TurboTax and I ran into the same conundrum. Not wanting the delay of a paper amendment filing was why I picked FreeTaxUSA for electronically amending. The pain point was the time entering my 2022 return manually in their system so it would generate a proper amendment. But it worked out fine.

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