ABRP 4.5.0. gets a major upgrade

[Zoidz]

This is some really useful information! We can't improve without knowing what we're doing wrong, so I really appreciate all the feedback in this thread.
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I'm on the ABRP Team and work closely with the Rivian team, and we've got a lot of stuff in the works that we're very excited about.

@Jason_ABRP - thanks for checking in here, listening to feedback and providing some insights!

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[RWerksman]

If you could send me the ABRP link (Share > Share ABRP Link) in a private message we can take a look at the actual plan and see what went wrong. We really shouldn't be adding short stops like that, and picking a slow charger is extra weird.

I have it and will send it shortly.

This is something we should figure out a way to communicate better on the UI. When there's traffic or good weather on the route that improves your range, we don't credit the whole effect when it comes to meeting arrival goals. Because that traffic could clear, or the weather could shift, and we don't want to end up getting you stuck because the weather was too optimistic.

So basically, the stop is probably there because on the no-traffic route you would use too much energy and would need a stop.

That's because if you drive faster you use more energy, and we found that for that particular leg it might be faster to drive slower (or only possible if you drive slower) than stopping to charge one more time. You can turn that off in the settings if you want (Speed > Adjust speed).

The stop in question was only 30 minutes away from home. I don't believe that speed (55mph zone) elevation or weather affected it. If I had the planner link to this, I would show it again.

To me, it's unexpected behavior that reduces faith in the system.

 

[Jason_ABRP]

Google maps and Apple Maps both do. But I think it is limited to just in car maps. Porsche and Apple Car play use Apple Maps for electric vehicles, https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...ets-apple-maps-ev-routing-with-carplay-update. Google maps is what is used in Polestar for all charging, preconditioning, and navigation.

Yeah, there's a lot of nuance to that though. If you go down the Google Maps route so you get preconditioning, you also (as of now) have to use Android Automotive, which is pretty restrictive. But at least you can get some limited third-party apps.

If you stick to Android Auto and CarPlay there isn't a way to precondition, but in principle Apple and Google could add that. There also exist signals in Android Auto (and presumably CarPlay, but not publicly available) to get some minimal car data, but it's a) not enough data for a good range prediction and b) completely unsupported by most OEMs. In all the EVs we've tested ABRP on AA trying to retrieve that data, none of them have given actual live EV data on the Android Auto signals.

So if you want a good EV navigation experience then you either use Google's OS, and give up a lot of control of your infotainment, or you do what Rivian is doing, and assemble the parts from existing providers into a workable solution.

Having used the Google Maps / Android Automotive implementation on our ABRP office Polestar, it's definitely a 'grass is greener' situation. It's got its benefits and weak spots as well.

And I'll remind you that I say this personally wishing that Rivian had AA/CP available, because they're great tools, even understanding their weaknesses.

 

[Joel]

Yeah, there's a lot of nuance to that though. If you go down the Google Maps route so you get preconditioning, you also (as of now) have to use Android Automotive, which is pretty restrictive. But at least you can get some limited third-party apps.

If you stick to Android Auto and CarPlay there isn't a way to precondition, but in principle Apple and Google could add that. There also exist signals in Android Auto (and presumably CarPlay, but not publicly available) to get some minimal car data, but it's a) not enough data for a good range prediction and b) completely unsupported by most OEMs. In all the EVs we've tested ABRP on AA trying to retrieve that data, none of them have given actual live EV data on the Android Auto signals.

So if you want a good EV navigation experience then you either use Google's OS, and give up a lot of control of your infotainment, or you do what Rivian is doing, and assemble the parts from existing providers into a workable solution.

Having used the Google Maps / Android Automotive implementation on our ABRP office Polestar, it's definitely a 'grass is greener' situation. It's got its benefits and weak spots as well.

And I'll remind you that I say this personally wishing that Rivian had AA/CP available, because they're great tools, even understanding their weaknesses.

Have you used the Polestar since the P2.10 update where CarPlay is now projected on the second screen?

Porsche has figured out how to use CarPlay and preconditioning plus all nav through Apple Maps.

 

[Jason_ABRP]

Have you used the Polestar since the P2.10 update where CarPlay is now projected on the second screen?

Porsche has figured out how to use CarPlay and preconditioning plus all nav through Apple Maps.

I haven't, unfortunately the Polestar 2 is at our Sweden office, and I'm based in the US, so my options for using it regularly are limited. That sounds awesome. I love the second screen instructions in AA on my ID.4, and I've seen screenshots of what's being done in CarPlay.

I'm completely unopposed to adding AA/CP, and if they're adding the hooks to allow all the things I've talked about needing for good EV navigation that's awesome! I'm just explaining part of why an automaker might choose not to, like Rivian has.

Also an important note - this is my own speculation and thoughts, not Rivian's rationale.

 

[KMeemsie]

ABRP is the worst navigation app I've ever tried to use! Wanted to send me 12 miles down the interstate in the wrong direction only to "make a U turn" and go back the right way. When I mapped out a 6 hour drive from home it said it would take almost 12. The one time I decided to go with it, it kept telling me I was "off course" but wouldn't give instructions for how to get ON course. Absolute garbage.

Now I use Waze on my phone for directions but use Rivian nav (just to prepare battery for charging) and Plug Share. It's frustrating to have that beautiful screen and have to use 2 or 3 different apps to navigate.

 

[SANZC02]

ABRP is the worst navigation app I've ever tried to use! Wanted to send me 12 miles down the interstate in the wrong direction only to "make a U turn" and go back the right way. When I mapped out a 6 hour drive from home it said it would take almost 12. The one time I decided to go with it, it kept telling me I was "off course" but wouldn't give instructions for how to get ON course. Absolute garbage.

Now I use Waze on my phone for directions but use Rivian nav (just to prepare battery for charging) and Plug Share. It's frustrating to have that beautiful screen and have to use 2 or 3 different apps to navigate.

Not saying I don’t believe these examples are true but in my personal experience using ABRP find both to be at best highly exaggerated. Just for verification can you provide the starting and ending points for the 12 miles in the wrong direction and 6 hour drive that was 12 hours. Would be simple enough so others could verify. Unless of course those examples are hyperbole and I misinterpreted them.

 

[Autolycus]

For all the talk about ABRP and Rivian’s routing being awful, I laugh every time someone says they rely on Waze. Waze has tried to send me down streets that didn’t exist anymore, streets that had been closed for construction for months, and has sent me on surface streets with stop signs every hundred yards when a highway was only very slightly delayed. All of them have their flaws.

 

[Cactusone]

Rivian gave me wrong directions to there own charger. Lol.

 

[azbill]

Google maps and Apple Maps both do. But I think it is limited to just in car maps. Porsche and Apple Car play use Apple Maps for electric vehicles, https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...ets-apple-maps-ev-routing-with-carplay-update. Google maps is what is used in Polestar for all charging, preconditioning, and navigation.

My Mach E has Apple Maps integration with Carplay and it is aware of battery level and efficiency. It is as accurate as the Ford built-in nav and both of those are more accurate than ABRP. Arrival SoC at the charger and necessary SoC at departure are very accurate. It is nice to have two choices when road tripping.

 

[Joel]

My Mach E has Apple Maps integration with Carplay and it is aware of battery level and efficiency. It is as accurate as the Ford built-in nav and both of those are more accurate than ABRP. Arrival SoC at the charger and necessary SoC at departure are very accurate. It is nice to have two choices when road tripping.

I need to see if the Polestar has that now that CarPlay has been integrated into the dash and not just infotainment screen.

 

[azbill]

I need to see if the Polestar has that now that CarPlay has been integrated into the dash and not just infotainment screen.

Ford had to work with Apple to integrate the info, Porsche did that as well. There was a setup procedure I had to run on the Mach E via CarPlay, right after it was enabled. There are some online videos of how to set it up. Apple also has some instructions. Ford had the CarPlay nav guidance on the driver display prior to having this feature.

 

[Joel]

Ford had to work with Apple to integrate the info, Porsche did that as well. There was a setup procedure I had to run on the Mach E via CarPlay, right after it was enabled. There are some online videos of how to set it up. Apple also has some instructions. Ford had the CarPlay nav guidance on the driver display prior to having this feature.

So maybe Polestar will have it in the next few updates. As each update has improved the integration of CarPlay.

 

[dl4060]

ABRP has been completely useless in trying to plan trips, I can't be alone with this opinion.

Example I drive Dallas to Bentonville every 1-2 months, it's 400 miles each way, I know where the chargers are, so I use plug share and know which ones are currently working and which ones aren't. IF I try to use ABRP it adds 100 miles to the trip, using chargers that are inoperable.

Why Rivian bought them I don't really understand, at least for me, it's not just worthless, if I blindly went along using it it would turn a 7 hour trip into a 10+ hour trip.

That's interesting.

For me, it is actually the opposite. ABRP is the reason I decided to get a Tesla in 2020. It is also the reason I decided that I could make the large pack R1T work for our twice a month (in the winter) trips to from Newport Beach to Mammoth.

I used it last summer to plan my drive from Newport Beach to the UP in Michigan. I used it this summer to plan that same drive in my R1T.

It is not perfect. Sometimes I'll plan my Mammoth trip, just for fun while i"m on the couch at night, and it won't use the RAN network chargers in Inyokern or Bishop, which makes no sense. They will occasionally give strange charging routes. But I am on it almost every day to play around, and I think it is a spectacular resource.

It is not perfect, but I have found it to be truly invaluable. It does sometimes route me to chargers which might not always work well, although this has never been an issue as when I see a strange charger I try to do some research.

I always advise people interested in getting an EV to spend a few months playing around with ABRP. It's not perfect, but it has really helped me out quite a bit. I don't know if I would have an EV today if not for ABRP.

But it does throw some bugs up sometimes. I was playing around with it one evening and it was routing me through Barstow to go to Mammoth from Newport Beach, in order to use the RAN their. That makes absolutely NO sense. I emailed them about it and they said the RAN in Inyokern was not high speed, which is not the case at all, I have used it. The bug seemed to disappear in a few days, and it was back to routing me properly.

 

[dl4060]

what makes it useless? I used it on a 2200 mile road trip and it worked just fine.

I just used it on a long trip, and it worked pretty well.

The biggest problem I have is with Alexa. Alexa is absolutely horrible. I don't think I have ever sworn so much at anything!!

I would keep asking basic things like 'take me to the Comfort Inn in Des Moines Iowa' and it would pull up Comfort Inn locations in Davenport and a bunch of other cities, but not the one I wanted. When I was getting near Denver I kept asking it to take me to the RAN charger in Broomfield CO, and it would pull up RAN chargers in Barstow, Bishop and Inyokern, all of which are in California. When it WOULD get something right it still had my location as Newport Beach, and it would give the distance from Newport Beach, not wherever I was, although the actual navigation would be correct. I could eventually get around the problem by giving the exact street address, but that is simply unacceptable on long road trip. Alexa needs to be seriously improved. The Tesla nav was better simply because it was much better at finding the places I would ask to go to. Alexa is simply horrible at doing that.

In fact, when I would say 'Comfort Inn, Des Moines' and follow that with the street address and it wouldn't work. When I would simply give the street address, without the Comfort Inn part, it WOULD work. While the road trip did work, I don't think I have ever been so frustrated with anything as I was with Alexa, the entire trip its ability to find places I wanted to go was truly horrible. There is no excuse for asking me if I want the Comfort Inn in Davenport or the one in Cedar Rapids after I've asked it for the one in Des Moines. There is no excuse for not being able to find the RAN charger in Broomfield. While I was able to eventually make it all work, Alexa needs to be made MUCH better. I'm not sure if the problem is with Rivian or Alexa.

I guess I should add that on some occasions after I've asked to navigate somewhere three times and gotten the 'I'm not familiar with that' response I will sometimes get what I want on the fourth try. It seems like it just takes a while to search in certain cases, or something like that. But it does need to get better.

Once Alexa actually found what I wanted to navigate to, the navigation tended to be pretty good.

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