cgm9999
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #1
Hey all,
Prelude: This will be long. You have been warned.
I just took delivery of my R1S (Forest Green/Ocean Coast/Adventure/21"s) two weeks ago after 2 years of waiting and since I don't have many people around me I can geek out to, here is my stream of conscious rambling of my thoughts. Of course, I'm on cloud nine right now and feel like a kid whose just ingested a bunch of pixie sticks, so the few poor souls who've made the mistake of talking to me about my new purchase (mostly coworkers) have been the receipient of the giddy, manic ramblings of an obsessive car enthusiast - many glazed eyes, yawns, and furtive glances to non-existent watches have been made. Like a AA meeting, I feel this is likely the only forum where people will not eventually start looking for the exit when I begin to talk about my addiction, so here goes. This will be long, so I warned you.
Since lurking in this forum, I've noticed that there are many reasons why people have decided to go with a Rivian. Some are your predictable electric car fans that wanted a larger SUV to complement/replace their Prius/Bolt/Leaf/Tesla/etc. Others appear to be your typical bougie BMW X7 type-buyer that can't seem to function unless they have the newest, glitziest thing on the market. There are also those that are past Subaru or Jeep owners who enjoy jaunts to the outdoors and are aspirational in their vehicle purchases, having reached a point in their careers that they could afford the spiritual successor to their outdoorsy SUVs/wagons.
This observation has made me understand that depending on where you're coming from vehicle-wise, your impression of the Rivian is likely to be strongly influenced by expectations derived from past vehicle purchases. So, I think it's important to note the perspective from which I'm viewing my R1S.
I grew up loving cars and when someone asks me about my hobbies, the first thing I mention is that I'm a "car guy (Human? Carbon-based life form with bipedal characteristics?)". Generally, I've loved performance cars in the traditional sense (German sports sedans/coupes, muscle cars both classic and modern, and high revving Japanese sport coupes and the like) but that love began to extend to off-roaders when, in my twenties, I enlisted in the Army and did a bunch of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. After driving my share of M11 series HMMWVs, ASVs, and MRAPs in combat, I quickly began to love and appreciate the different capabilities and engineering that went into building a capable off-roader, as well as the different set of skills required of a driver of such vehicles. Thus, I started to really desire similar vehicles when I was back in the rear. Being stationed in Colorado, an off-roader really "unlocks" the true beauty of this state, allowing one to go to the places that make this place really special. Plus, I wanted something that would allow me to target shoot in the mountains - the more capable the off-roader, the more isolated - and thus - better the spot one could shoot at.
I ended up purchasing a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the Ecodiesel engine in February 2015. I wanted something that was both very off-road capable and still great to drive on the pavement, with all the features I've come to expect in my past sports sedan/coupes. I didn't want a Wrangler/4Runner/etc. because this would be a daily driver and as great as those vehicles are for off-road, I consider them miserable to drive on pavement, especially as a guy used to being spoiled by numerous performance cars in the past. Land Rovers (Discos and Range Rovers) met the luxury and features requirements, but as we all know, poor reliability, sparse service centers and expensive parts are a very poor recipe for an off-roader. Land Cruisers are too expensive and thirsty (ditto old G-Wagons, but even more so), Subaru's to banal, unrefined, slow and without the capability I was looking for, so GC was the vehicle that best fit the bill. For me the GC had all the luxuries I was used to in a premium vehicle (with the Summit trim, specifically), but also with more than enough off-road chops. It had a true transfer case, Quadra-Drive II has a locking center diff and limited slip rear diff, and the air suspension provided tons of usability - low ride height for loading/unloading/highway efficiency, high ride height for off-roading.
For eight years, it became the vehicle that I owned the longest. It did everything from cross-country trips (Denver to Springfield, MO on one tank of diesel!), to camping and shooting expeditions in the mountains. It towed out-state purchased motorcycles with ease, had enough room to sleep in, and was quiet and refined at speed. But, the Ecodiesel engine had its fair share of problems and annoyances. While my engine was plenty reliable, I didn't trust it enough to own it far past its warranty period. Plus, it literally had the worst power delivery and laggiest throttle response I've ever experienced in a vehicle; it felt like the earliest turbocharged cars from the early 80s. I began to hate its lack of power, responsiveness, and quirks and when Rivian presented their concept, I truly felt they built a vehicle for me.
So, the R1S was the vehicle I've always wanted in a daily driver and capable off-roader, and then some. Until Rivian came on the scene, every brand that attempted to bring to market a luxurious, refined daily driver with serious off-roading capabilities always came with glaring compromises whether it be outrageous pricing, abysmal fuel efficiency, or whatever. To me, Rivian has done the impossible - build a car that can do two opposing things with little to no compromises. It can do serious off-roading and also go zero to 100mph in less than 10 seconds all without burning a drop of gasoline. Amazing.
So, what are my impressions? It's only been 2 weeks, but I'm ecstatic to report that the R1S is everything I wanted it to be. I absolutely love, love, love the electric powertrain. I love the instant response, the lack of a transmission and thus, corresponding delay in shifting that has to happen when making abrupt throttle inputs, outrageous passing power, and one-pedal driving. To me, the electric drivetrain is game-changing and is such a categorically beneficial strength that it instantly makes the R1S better than its competition from a drivers perspective. I love the complete and utter lack of NVH at a stop. No vibrations. No buzzing engine. No noise. In one fell swoop, an electric drivetrain accomplishes what every Cadillac Fleetwood and Rolls Royce chased for decades.
With the ocean coast interior, it's so airy and inviting in the cabin - it's truly spacious in the drivers seat and that's much appreciated as a big guy. I consider the visibility to be awesome as far as modern vehicles go with their towering belt-lines and modern crash standards. The front and side visibility is truly expansive and instantly imparts a feeling of confidence whilst driving on tight city streets. Even the rear visibility is quite good in a day and age where so many SUVs are now evolving into grotesque vehicular mutants with ham-fisted coupe-like design characteristics haphazardly slapped upon them. In a world of such Powell Motors Homer-mobiles, the traditional SUV design principles of the R1S are refreshing and worthy of respect.
I really dig the design and layout of the cabin. I have not tested the comfort of the seats during a long drive, but I find them both comfortable and supportive. They have the correct amount of side bolstering (they're there but not intrusive) and thigh cushion length. The driver's ergonomics are very dialed in - the height of the seat, width of the driver cockpit (distance between center armrest and door armrest), roominess of the foot box and placement of the dead pedal are all ideal and greatly contribute to the overall driver experience. Legacy manufacturers still get this wrong (looking at you GM with your off center steering wheels), and it's clear Rivian employed the proper people to ensure that these things were prioritized. I'm a big fan of being able to stow my standard Nalgene water bottle in the door pocket and toss my phone on the charging mat (which doesn't work...). I don't have kids, but my friends sat in the second row during my inaugural drive at home and reported having plenty of comfort and space.
The size of the R1S is ideal for a 3 row SUV. It's 10 inches longer than my GC, but doesn't feel like it. It's not remotely cumbersome or ungainly like a Suburban or Navigator. The maneuverability and camera suite make this vehicle easy enough to place in parking garages and parallel parking situations, which is important to me, because I frequent downtown Denver almost weekly, enjoying the dozens of microbreweries it has to offer on the reg (tell me your don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids...). This is also a reason why I've never owned a pickup, although I've been tempted, but could never justify owning such a huge vehicle. Furthermore, the R1S, despite having a relatively large wheelbase (as far a SUVs go, that is) has substantially better off-road geometry than any pickup, so that was a huge plus for me.
The ride and handling balance is quite good. This is a 7,000 lb. vehicle and I had no delusions that it wouldn't drive like one. It does. To me, that's both good and bad. I like the stability and confidence that comes with a heavy vehicle and the R1S delivers that. It's also a much better driver than any vehicle with its weight and dimensions has any right to be. The steering has the right amount of accuracy, heft, and responsiveness (i.e. ratio) to be just this side of sporty, without feeling nervous, twitchy or out-of-sync as a capable off-roader. I think the size of the steering wheel contributes to this too; it's smaller than you'd expect in a vehicle like this and you feel more like a conductor yielding a baton than what is normally typical in large SUVs, which can feel more like wrestling a ship's wheel in a dreadnaught. In steady state turns at speed, it has far less roll than anything that doesn't have sporting pretensions. In short, I find the tuning of the suspension quite nice and have not experienced any of the porpoising that early R1Ss prior to the update seemed to have.
So far, I find the infotainment experience just fine. Both me and the wife's phone sync up fast. The menus are pretty easy to navigate and look good. I find the camera resolution to be adequate and usable in the night. While I have Apple CarPlay in my Cadillac V and like it, I don't think its a must have in a vehicle as long as the UI isn't complete garbage, but that likely has a lot to do with the fact that my infotainment needs are quite small. I use Spotify, I don't talk or text while driving, and live pretty close to work, so the accurate traffic reporting of Google Maps/Waze is not needed on a daily basis. I could certainly understand that if my needs were different, I'd be underwhelmed and/or pissed, but for me, i rather like it. I find the driving gauges very clean and readable. I'm also a fan of the new gauges available in the driving mode screen that shows battery and motor temps as I always appreciated oil and coolant temp gauges front and center in my performance cars.
Dislikes? Not many. It's true that the sound system is underwhelming. It's not bad, but it's pretty average. As a guy that has home theater grade speakers, seperates and TV at home, I'd love to improve it in the future and it's one of the things that I'm waiting for more daring owners to take the lead on and report their findings.
The locking/unlocking process is absolutely and bafflingly stupid and dare I say, unacceptable. This is like fumbling on the 1 yard line. How does a car manufacturer basically revolutionize an entire vehicle segment and then simultaneously fail at implementing a functionality so tried and true as locking and unlocking a vehicle? I also don't like that the HVAC and sound system don't turn off the instant you open the door when the vehicle is in park. It just feels super off-putting closing the door and walking away from the R1S and you can still hear the muffled sounds of your podcast still playing as you walk away from the car.
I'd also like more refinement in the chassis department. Minor bumps transfer a bit too much shudder throughout the cabin than I'd like. On a related note, there are some areas in the cabin that could use a bit more engineering in terms of NVH. I've noticed that all of the seat belt loops/retractors have a lot of play in them and rattle around whenever driving over frost heaves and expansion joints. If it bothers me enough, I may pop the interior B-pllar panels off and see if I can't strategically place some felt tape in there.
Also, sometimes the comfort ingress/egress fails to work when getting in and out of the car. A minor annoyance, but still an annoyance.
As mentioned earlier, the wireless charging pad doesn't work, but it's not a big deal to me. I'll deal with that later if I have to make a service appointment later down the line.
Overall, the fit and finish of my R1S is quite good, but there are a few small misalignments here and there. Again, if I have anything that requires a service ticket, I may bring this up. However, I've learned over the years that some battles are not worth the fight when it comes to service issues, and this may be one of them. They don't change the function of the vehicle and honestly, don't bother me. Prior to being medicated by the VA, things like this drove me batty. I came to realize that sometimes when it came to stuff like this, the problem was me (and my OCD), and not the vehicle. Just a thought if this sounds like you, but that's another topic for another time.
To sum it up, I believe my R1S to be the best vehicle I've ever owned from a product development perspective. In terms of its concept, intended purpose of design, and final execution, I find it sensational. If the owning experience is only half as good as my past favorite cars, it will probably become one of, if not the best vehicle purchases I've ever made. It's the "have your cake and eat it too" type of vehicle of which I've always dreamt. The purchasing process was awesome, too. It was seamless, personalized and absolutely put to shame every purchasing experience I've ever had, BMW and Mercedes purchases included.
If you're a car enthusiast and have a good understanding of not just vehicles, but the vast resources (knowledge, experience, logistics, capital, etc.) it takes for manufacturers to run a successful car brand, you obviously know that bringing a brand new vehicle to market is an undertaking that requires almost miraculous talent and luck, likely in equal measure. That Rivian has done this, and managed to actually produce not just a vehicle, but one that that is so stellar right out of the gate is truly a moonshot.
Like most of you, I could go on (and on), but I'll end it here. If you read all of this, congrats - you have a lot of time on your hands!
Prelude: This will be long. You have been warned.
I just took delivery of my R1S (Forest Green/Ocean Coast/Adventure/21"s) two weeks ago after 2 years of waiting and since I don't have many people around me I can geek out to, here is my stream of conscious rambling of my thoughts. Of course, I'm on cloud nine right now and feel like a kid whose just ingested a bunch of pixie sticks, so the few poor souls who've made the mistake of talking to me about my new purchase (mostly coworkers) have been the receipient of the giddy, manic ramblings of an obsessive car enthusiast - many glazed eyes, yawns, and furtive glances to non-existent watches have been made. Like a AA meeting, I feel this is likely the only forum where people will not eventually start looking for the exit when I begin to talk about my addiction, so here goes. This will be long, so I warned you.
Since lurking in this forum, I've noticed that there are many reasons why people have decided to go with a Rivian. Some are your predictable electric car fans that wanted a larger SUV to complement/replace their Prius/Bolt/Leaf/Tesla/etc. Others appear to be your typical bougie BMW X7 type-buyer that can't seem to function unless they have the newest, glitziest thing on the market. There are also those that are past Subaru or Jeep owners who enjoy jaunts to the outdoors and are aspirational in their vehicle purchases, having reached a point in their careers that they could afford the spiritual successor to their outdoorsy SUVs/wagons.
This observation has made me understand that depending on where you're coming from vehicle-wise, your impression of the Rivian is likely to be strongly influenced by expectations derived from past vehicle purchases. So, I think it's important to note the perspective from which I'm viewing my R1S.
I grew up loving cars and when someone asks me about my hobbies, the first thing I mention is that I'm a "car guy (Human? Carbon-based life form with bipedal characteristics?)". Generally, I've loved performance cars in the traditional sense (German sports sedans/coupes, muscle cars both classic and modern, and high revving Japanese sport coupes and the like) but that love began to extend to off-roaders when, in my twenties, I enlisted in the Army and did a bunch of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. After driving my share of M11 series HMMWVs, ASVs, and MRAPs in combat, I quickly began to love and appreciate the different capabilities and engineering that went into building a capable off-roader, as well as the different set of skills required of a driver of such vehicles. Thus, I started to really desire similar vehicles when I was back in the rear. Being stationed in Colorado, an off-roader really "unlocks" the true beauty of this state, allowing one to go to the places that make this place really special. Plus, I wanted something that would allow me to target shoot in the mountains - the more capable the off-roader, the more isolated - and thus - better the spot one could shoot at.
I ended up purchasing a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the Ecodiesel engine in February 2015. I wanted something that was both very off-road capable and still great to drive on the pavement, with all the features I've come to expect in my past sports sedan/coupes. I didn't want a Wrangler/4Runner/etc. because this would be a daily driver and as great as those vehicles are for off-road, I consider them miserable to drive on pavement, especially as a guy used to being spoiled by numerous performance cars in the past. Land Rovers (Discos and Range Rovers) met the luxury and features requirements, but as we all know, poor reliability, sparse service centers and expensive parts are a very poor recipe for an off-roader. Land Cruisers are too expensive and thirsty (ditto old G-Wagons, but even more so), Subaru's to banal, unrefined, slow and without the capability I was looking for, so GC was the vehicle that best fit the bill. For me the GC had all the luxuries I was used to in a premium vehicle (with the Summit trim, specifically), but also with more than enough off-road chops. It had a true transfer case, Quadra-Drive II has a locking center diff and limited slip rear diff, and the air suspension provided tons of usability - low ride height for loading/unloading/highway efficiency, high ride height for off-roading.
For eight years, it became the vehicle that I owned the longest. It did everything from cross-country trips (Denver to Springfield, MO on one tank of diesel!), to camping and shooting expeditions in the mountains. It towed out-state purchased motorcycles with ease, had enough room to sleep in, and was quiet and refined at speed. But, the Ecodiesel engine had its fair share of problems and annoyances. While my engine was plenty reliable, I didn't trust it enough to own it far past its warranty period. Plus, it literally had the worst power delivery and laggiest throttle response I've ever experienced in a vehicle; it felt like the earliest turbocharged cars from the early 80s. I began to hate its lack of power, responsiveness, and quirks and when Rivian presented their concept, I truly felt they built a vehicle for me.
So, the R1S was the vehicle I've always wanted in a daily driver and capable off-roader, and then some. Until Rivian came on the scene, every brand that attempted to bring to market a luxurious, refined daily driver with serious off-roading capabilities always came with glaring compromises whether it be outrageous pricing, abysmal fuel efficiency, or whatever. To me, Rivian has done the impossible - build a car that can do two opposing things with little to no compromises. It can do serious off-roading and also go zero to 100mph in less than 10 seconds all without burning a drop of gasoline. Amazing.
So, what are my impressions? It's only been 2 weeks, but I'm ecstatic to report that the R1S is everything I wanted it to be. I absolutely love, love, love the electric powertrain. I love the instant response, the lack of a transmission and thus, corresponding delay in shifting that has to happen when making abrupt throttle inputs, outrageous passing power, and one-pedal driving. To me, the electric drivetrain is game-changing and is such a categorically beneficial strength that it instantly makes the R1S better than its competition from a drivers perspective. I love the complete and utter lack of NVH at a stop. No vibrations. No buzzing engine. No noise. In one fell swoop, an electric drivetrain accomplishes what every Cadillac Fleetwood and Rolls Royce chased for decades.
With the ocean coast interior, it's so airy and inviting in the cabin - it's truly spacious in the drivers seat and that's much appreciated as a big guy. I consider the visibility to be awesome as far as modern vehicles go with their towering belt-lines and modern crash standards. The front and side visibility is truly expansive and instantly imparts a feeling of confidence whilst driving on tight city streets. Even the rear visibility is quite good in a day and age where so many SUVs are now evolving into grotesque vehicular mutants with ham-fisted coupe-like design characteristics haphazardly slapped upon them. In a world of such Powell Motors Homer-mobiles, the traditional SUV design principles of the R1S are refreshing and worthy of respect.
I really dig the design and layout of the cabin. I have not tested the comfort of the seats during a long drive, but I find them both comfortable and supportive. They have the correct amount of side bolstering (they're there but not intrusive) and thigh cushion length. The driver's ergonomics are very dialed in - the height of the seat, width of the driver cockpit (distance between center armrest and door armrest), roominess of the foot box and placement of the dead pedal are all ideal and greatly contribute to the overall driver experience. Legacy manufacturers still get this wrong (looking at you GM with your off center steering wheels), and it's clear Rivian employed the proper people to ensure that these things were prioritized. I'm a big fan of being able to stow my standard Nalgene water bottle in the door pocket and toss my phone on the charging mat (which doesn't work...). I don't have kids, but my friends sat in the second row during my inaugural drive at home and reported having plenty of comfort and space.
The size of the R1S is ideal for a 3 row SUV. It's 10 inches longer than my GC, but doesn't feel like it. It's not remotely cumbersome or ungainly like a Suburban or Navigator. The maneuverability and camera suite make this vehicle easy enough to place in parking garages and parallel parking situations, which is important to me, because I frequent downtown Denver almost weekly, enjoying the dozens of microbreweries it has to offer on the reg (tell me your don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids...). This is also a reason why I've never owned a pickup, although I've been tempted, but could never justify owning such a huge vehicle. Furthermore, the R1S, despite having a relatively large wheelbase (as far a SUVs go, that is) has substantially better off-road geometry than any pickup, so that was a huge plus for me.
The ride and handling balance is quite good. This is a 7,000 lb. vehicle and I had no delusions that it wouldn't drive like one. It does. To me, that's both good and bad. I like the stability and confidence that comes with a heavy vehicle and the R1S delivers that. It's also a much better driver than any vehicle with its weight and dimensions has any right to be. The steering has the right amount of accuracy, heft, and responsiveness (i.e. ratio) to be just this side of sporty, without feeling nervous, twitchy or out-of-sync as a capable off-roader. I think the size of the steering wheel contributes to this too; it's smaller than you'd expect in a vehicle like this and you feel more like a conductor yielding a baton than what is normally typical in large SUVs, which can feel more like wrestling a ship's wheel in a dreadnaught. In steady state turns at speed, it has far less roll than anything that doesn't have sporting pretensions. In short, I find the tuning of the suspension quite nice and have not experienced any of the porpoising that early R1Ss prior to the update seemed to have.
So far, I find the infotainment experience just fine. Both me and the wife's phone sync up fast. The menus are pretty easy to navigate and look good. I find the camera resolution to be adequate and usable in the night. While I have Apple CarPlay in my Cadillac V and like it, I don't think its a must have in a vehicle as long as the UI isn't complete garbage, but that likely has a lot to do with the fact that my infotainment needs are quite small. I use Spotify, I don't talk or text while driving, and live pretty close to work, so the accurate traffic reporting of Google Maps/Waze is not needed on a daily basis. I could certainly understand that if my needs were different, I'd be underwhelmed and/or pissed, but for me, i rather like it. I find the driving gauges very clean and readable. I'm also a fan of the new gauges available in the driving mode screen that shows battery and motor temps as I always appreciated oil and coolant temp gauges front and center in my performance cars.
Dislikes? Not many. It's true that the sound system is underwhelming. It's not bad, but it's pretty average. As a guy that has home theater grade speakers, seperates and TV at home, I'd love to improve it in the future and it's one of the things that I'm waiting for more daring owners to take the lead on and report their findings.
The locking/unlocking process is absolutely and bafflingly stupid and dare I say, unacceptable. This is like fumbling on the 1 yard line. How does a car manufacturer basically revolutionize an entire vehicle segment and then simultaneously fail at implementing a functionality so tried and true as locking and unlocking a vehicle? I also don't like that the HVAC and sound system don't turn off the instant you open the door when the vehicle is in park. It just feels super off-putting closing the door and walking away from the R1S and you can still hear the muffled sounds of your podcast still playing as you walk away from the car.
I'd also like more refinement in the chassis department. Minor bumps transfer a bit too much shudder throughout the cabin than I'd like. On a related note, there are some areas in the cabin that could use a bit more engineering in terms of NVH. I've noticed that all of the seat belt loops/retractors have a lot of play in them and rattle around whenever driving over frost heaves and expansion joints. If it bothers me enough, I may pop the interior B-pllar panels off and see if I can't strategically place some felt tape in there.
Also, sometimes the comfort ingress/egress fails to work when getting in and out of the car. A minor annoyance, but still an annoyance.
As mentioned earlier, the wireless charging pad doesn't work, but it's not a big deal to me. I'll deal with that later if I have to make a service appointment later down the line.
Overall, the fit and finish of my R1S is quite good, but there are a few small misalignments here and there. Again, if I have anything that requires a service ticket, I may bring this up. However, I've learned over the years that some battles are not worth the fight when it comes to service issues, and this may be one of them. They don't change the function of the vehicle and honestly, don't bother me. Prior to being medicated by the VA, things like this drove me batty. I came to realize that sometimes when it came to stuff like this, the problem was me (and my OCD), and not the vehicle. Just a thought if this sounds like you, but that's another topic for another time.
To sum it up, I believe my R1S to be the best vehicle I've ever owned from a product development perspective. In terms of its concept, intended purpose of design, and final execution, I find it sensational. If the owning experience is only half as good as my past favorite cars, it will probably become one of, if not the best vehicle purchases I've ever made. It's the "have your cake and eat it too" type of vehicle of which I've always dreamt. The purchasing process was awesome, too. It was seamless, personalized and absolutely put to shame every purchasing experience I've ever had, BMW and Mercedes purchases included.
If you're a car enthusiast and have a good understanding of not just vehicles, but the vast resources (knowledge, experience, logistics, capital, etc.) it takes for manufacturers to run a successful car brand, you obviously know that bringing a brand new vehicle to market is an undertaking that requires almost miraculous talent and luck, likely in equal measure. That Rivian has done this, and managed to actually produce not just a vehicle, but one that that is so stellar right out of the gate is truly a moonshot.
Like most of you, I could go on (and on), but I'll end it here. If you read all of this, congrats - you have a lot of time on your hands!
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