The 330-Mile Question: Where Are the 260+ Mile R2 Drives?

[ksurfier]

I had never owned or even driven an EV before and honestly knew very little about EPA EV range. I started looking at the R2 because the price, size and overall package finally seemed reasonable enough for me to consider switching from ICE.

Then I watched all those reviews with "330 miles EPA, but only 250-something on the highway" and thought the range was pretty bad. That's basically what made me dig into it.

With AI tools connected to a database it's pretty easy to collect tests and owner reports now, so I started doing that and also tried to understand what the EPA number actually means.

And yeah, I was looking at it wrong at first.

330 is the combined EPA number. The EPA highway number is closer to 301 miles on the 21" and around 276 on the 20" AT. But even that does NOT mean 301 miles while cruising at 70 or 75 mph.

There isn't really an "EPA speed." The highway cycle changes speed and averages somewhere around the high 40s, then the result gets adjusted to better represent real-world driving. So even driving a constant 50 mph isn't the same test. In good conditions you could actually beat the EPA highway number at that speed.

That also means saying "253 miles at 70 mph vs 301 EPA, so it missed EPA by 16%" isn't really correct either. You're still comparing two different things.

The tests I've collected are useful mostly for getting a rough idea of range at a particular speed.

21" R2:
Around 70 mph: roughly 253-277 miles depending on the test.
75 mph: 260 miles in Car and Driver's test.
80 mph: roughly 190-216 miles in Out of Spec testing.

20" AT:
Around 70 mph: roughly 262-264 miles in the State of Charge test.

I wouldn't call any one of those "the highway range." Wind, temperature, pavement, traffic, elevation, tires, etc. can move the result quite a bit.

The Out of Spec comparison with the Model Y is more useful because they actually drove them back to back, same route, same conditions, and swapped positions. So yes, I think it's fair to say "the Model Y was more efficient than the R2 at the speeds they tested."

But that's still different from saying the R2 is universally X% less efficient than a Model Y. That's what happened in that test under those conditions.

And if you find yourself driving 80 mph every day, honestly, get a Model Y RWD. That's just not where the R2 makes much sense. Based on the 80 mph tests, you're looking at roughly 190-216 miles from 100% to empty. If you normally use something like 80% to 10%, that's only around 130-150 miles before I'd personally want to charge. If your 80 mph driving is shorter than that, fine. If you're doing long stretches like that all the time, I'd buy the more efficient car.

The other thing I still need to figure out is whether the R2 is actually worth the money for me. Something like the new Subaru or Toyota EV is around $15k cheaper and seems more efficient, while still being an outdoorsy AWD vehicle.

I get that the R2 has a lot of cool tech and features, but I also know how I actually use cars. I use maps and music. That's basically it. I don't even use cruise control, and I still look over my shoulder before changing lanes because I don't completely trust blind spot monitoring So at some point I need to decide how much all the extra Rivian stuff is actually worth to me.

So I started with "how does a 330-mile EV turn into a 250-mile EV?" Now I think that whole comparison is mostly wrong.

Unless you already have an R1, I think the most logical question to ask is “Can I actually get a couple year old R1 for about the same price as the R2?” Those represent an exceptional value, especially if lower miles (~$30k). That said I think the R2 is going to do exceptionally well and it’s a home run for Rivian (other than the points I’ve brought up).

Sponsored

 

[evilyn]

Most people 90% of the time, use their car for short trips and the recharge at home overnight. If course you are not seeing 330. Probably never will, because the commuter driver that is getting that mileage is never letting it get below 20-30% if they don't have home charging. If they do have home charging, you'll see a lot of 100s or less.

Yep, I usually charge at home when the SoC drops to 30%, so it's 30%-70% for daily use is more than enough.
When on road trips, you typically somewhere in 10%-80% range and next stop depends on where the convenient chargers are located. People make 50 miles difference on full charge a big deal, while it's not. It basically means whether you arrive at 10% or 12% to the next charger.
Until there is a battery that would allow the whole day driving (~500 miles) without DC charging and only charging at your destination overnight, those small differences in range don't matter for long trips either.

 

[Dark-Fx]

If the comparison was never made, I think this issue would have been dropped a long time ago.

This forum seems to attract dead horse beaters.

 

[windblowlc]

This forum seems to attract dead horse beaters.

No, only one member seems to beat the dead horse over and over.

 

[Chris-Socal]

I certainly understand there are technicalities with EPA numbers but there are other ways I feel deceived over the past two years. Whichever method Rivian chose to rate the range, for two years we heard From the mouths of their CEO and engineers that they were doing things that would allow the R2 to perform, or out perform, Teslas equivalent. Someone called me out on my quote of RJ, I don’t know what speed he was driving but you can’t stand there in an interview and flat out say you are consistently getting well over 300 miles of range. That is deceptive. He lives in SoCal and works in Irvine… someone who has an R2 in that web of freeway please post a real-world range of 300+ miles. I seriously doubt AJ was driving around without AC on and doing something to stretch range…he was just talking out of his rear end…I will believe that until someone shows me different. Not someone in the Midwest where you can drive 55 for 60 miles, someone who lives near RJ where you can sometimes drive 55…if you are lucky!
Yes, EPA needs to get their arms around this. Gasoline vehicles nearly always get stated range on freeway drives (all of mine since 1992 have), why don’t they make EV manufacturers provide a long-drive expectation like they do on ICE vehicles? Fine, provide a possible long range/low speed unrealistic number? This conversation wouldn’t even be here if hundreds of us didn’t put the brakes on buying one when reality hit.
For the record, my expectations were only what their mouths said…nothing else.

 

[emoore]

I certainly understand there are technicalities with EPA numbers but there are other ways I feel deceived over the past two years. Whichever method Rivian chose to rate the range, for two years we heard From the mouths of their CEO and engineers that they were doing things that would allow the R2 to perform, or out perform, Teslas equivalent. Someone called me out on my quote of RJ, I don’t know what speed he was driving but you can’t stand there in an interview and flat out say you are consistently getting well over 300 miles of range. That is deceptive. He lives in SoCal and works in Irvine… someone who has an R2 in that web of freeway please post a real-world range of 300+ miles. I seriously doubt AJ was driving around without AC on and doing something to stretch range…he was just talking out of his rear end…I will believe that until someone shows me different. Not someone in the Midwest where you can drive 55 for 60 miles, someone who lives near RJ where you can sometimes drive 55…if you are lucky!
Yes, EPA needs to get their arms around this. Gasoline vehicles nearly always get stated range on freeway drives (all of mine since 1992 have), why don’t they make EV manufacturers provide a long-drive expectation like they do on ICE vehicles? Fine, provide a possible long range/low speed unrealistic number? This conversation wouldn’t even be here if hundreds of us didn’t put the brakes on buying one when reality hit.
For the record, my expectations were only what their mouths said…nothing else.

People buying ICE cars look at rate of fuel usage, not range. If people would look at an EV rate of electricity usage they would understand that EVs are less efficient on the highway than in the city. Not that difficult to understand.

 

[ksurfier]

I certainly understand there are technicalities with EPA numbers but there are other ways I feel deceived over the past two years. Whichever method Rivian chose to rate the range, for two years we heard From the mouths of their CEO and engineers that they were doing things that would allow the R2 to perform, or out perform, Teslas equivalent. Someone called me out on my quote of RJ, I don’t know what speed he was driving but you can’t stand there in an interview and flat out say you are consistently getting well over 300 miles of range. That is deceptive. He lives in SoCal and works in Irvine… someone who has an R2 in that web of freeway please post a real-world range of 300+ miles. I seriously doubt AJ was driving around without AC on and doing something to stretch range…he was just talking out of his rear end…I will believe that until someone shows me different. Not someone in the Midwest where you can drive 55 for 60 miles, someone who lives near RJ where you can sometimes drive 55…if you are lucky!
Yes, EPA needs to get their arms around this. Gasoline vehicles nearly always get stated range on freeway drives (all of mine since 1992 have), why don’t they make EV manufacturers provide a long-drive expectation like they do on ICE vehicles? Fine, provide a possible long range/low speed unrealistic number? This conversation wouldn’t even be here if hundreds of us didn’t put the brakes on buying one when reality hit.
For the record, my expectations were only what their mouths said…nothing else.

I've finally figured out what's going on at the EPA:

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Prove that you haven’t shown that other brands do not have the same issue?

ok - done!

Also, did you just use AI to respond to a comment about you using AI? lol, you aren’t very good at this.

Sponsored