As you might have guessed.... higher gas prices has increased interest in EVs [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[iansriv]

And that's the thing - you can enjoy both. The EV vs ICE divide never made sense to me. I think an EV daily driver + ICE road tripper or weekend car is the best mix available. If one can afford both, that is a dream setup. An EV likely will never (and should not try to) match the feeling of driving a manual and that's fine. We can just enjoy things for what they are.

Yes, as long as you have a wife that doesn't complain about the 911 being too low or too noisy and you complicate matters with constant speeding tickets. Life is complicated (j/k). Cheers.

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[stormbreaker]

I didn't see this mentioned in the thread thus far, but I just learned about a concept called 'demand destruction'.

The article didn't indicate that society is at that point yet, however the pain point of extremely high fuel costs have many people looking elsewhere. If we didn't have such luddites in charge of this explicative deleted country, circumstances would be different.

My young peers at work all do well enough, however without charging at their apartments, they all drive ICE when they'd prefer EV....like my Rivian

 

[Jeff M]

It's a lot of copium. A lot of the issue with adoption IMO is straight up lack of education to the general population. Years of FUD have worked as intended. People are CONVINCED you need at least 500 miles of range that charges within 5 minutes with charging stations at every corner for EVs to viable. And oh, you will still need to replace the battery every 2 years, assuming it doesn't burn your house down.

The Rivian was a fun conversation starter, albeit a frustrating one as non-EV owners tend to have a lot of opinions and assumption about EV life. I always entertain genuine curiosity but once the conversation turns from questions to uninformed statements like "well they are just as bad for the environment with the mining" or "you have to replace the tires every year", I check out and let it die.

I like your checkout guidance and when to move from providing knowledgeable quantifiable information to fielding uninformed innuendo.

 

[jrmbadger]

Its not going to be one person that changes someone's mind, but once they hear how great EVs are from 2-3 other people they know, they will start to rethink things.

My father in law is a die hard right winger and when he found out we were driving the EV to a family reunion he told my wife "You do know its over 500 miles right?" - he legitimately had NO idea that DC fast charging existed. He was surprised when we rolled up about 5 minutes after him (we started about the same time) and still had 50% charge left.

 

[Jeff M]

More charging stations for long trips and exploring rural areas has dramatically changed since we bought our 234 mile range 2021 Audi ETron Prestige in Idaho in 2021. Our 2026 Dual Max Performance R1S has far more range - beyond bladder limits . But I can easily make long trips in the Audi now. Faster charging, but more frequent. I really enjoy both!

 

[skyguyscott]

NBC news has an interesting cost calculator where you input your tank size, number of fill ups/month and state and see how much more you would have paid in gas since late February.

In my case that would've worked out to about $500 more, which is a lot, but not much in comparison to the higher price of a new BEV. But, depending on how much longer this goes on, it could continue to make a difference in sales at the margins.

Still, I'm glad I'm driving an EV for all sorts of additional reasons, but I am even happier now that I don't have to deal with the weekly fluctuations in fuel prices.

 

[White Shadow]

I don't really think the price of gas is going to ever be a big factor in people switching to EVs unless it's a huge increase that is sustained for at least a year, maybe longer. Gas is already dropping again and it will be interesting to see if it keeps dropping considering the current situation.

 

[CrazyOne]

Electricity prices are rising too. 2022 - 2028, they will close to double.

R1 costs about 11 cents in electricity. Our gas only ICE costs 30 cents. If it was hybrid, it would be a 30 mpg and 20 cents. I also pay $225 for everything fee, in addition to huge upfront cost. I didn't buy R1 to save money, and it never will for me.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

NBC news has an interesting cost calculator where you input your tank size, number of fill ups/month and state and see how much more you would have paid in gas since late February.

In my case that would've worked out to about $500 more, which is a lot, but not much in comparison to the higher price of a new BEV. But, depending on how much longer this goes on, it could continue to make a difference in sales at the margins.

Still, I'm glad I'm driving an EV for all sorts of additional reasons, but I am even happier now that I don't have to deal with the weekly fluctuations in fuel prices.

Man, I would be paying $40 to fill up the tank of my previous 10-gallon Honda Fit if I didn’t have an EV. That’s crazy! I’m paying half that for public charging and if I could get my home set up going it would be a little more than 1/3.

 

[BigSkies]

I didn't see this mentioned in the thread thus far, but I just learned about a concept called 'demand destruction'.

The article didn't indicate that society is at that point yet, however the pain point of extremely high fuel costs have many people looking elsewhere. If we didn't have such luddites in charge of this explicative deleted country, circumstances would be different.

My young peers at work all do well enough, however without charging at their apartments, they all drive ICE when they'd prefer EV....like my Rivian

I forgot where I saw it. I think it was the IEA or a similar agency.

They estimated what it would take to see sustained supply destruction or sustained demand destruction. It was a curve and not a fixed point, but the point of serious demand destruction didn't pick up until oil was over $100/barrel. Some parts of the world are seeing equivalents of that now, but not the US.

Supply destruction starts when prices are below around $70/barrel.

 

[Rade]

It's up to preference.

• Are you a truck person, SUV person or sedan person?
• Are you a Ford person or a GM person?
• Are you a US brand or an Asian brand loyalist?
• Do you prefer VW or Mercedes over BMW?
• Do you prefer electric over gas or hybrid?

When we were ICE owners, and at the gas pump paying $2.39 a gallon, and we'd see the Land Rover, Audi or Mercedes at the next pump over using the $3.49 per gallon high octane, we just shook our heads in disbelif on "How could ANYBODY want to drive a vehicle that requires an expensive gas to operate!" then go into our usual round-robin discussion of quality the given brand. Same with watching someone in a jacked up, black-out F-150 Lariat or Jeep Commander that surely "...never sees more than 12mpg, and has had HOW many recalls last week?".

But it came down to - those owners preferred those vehicle over all others. Out of what? Brand loyalty or familiarity? Peer pressure? Accepted hype?

We (husband and I) prefer electric. I was firmly in the Nissan court until I went Rivian. Don't care if it's a Tesla, Rivan, Nissan Leaf (out of production at time of switch) or Slate, we prefer electric. Yes, we pay here in Southern New England an average of $0.29 per kw to charge at public charging, $0.25 at home (no discounts). The RIvian has a 109.4kW battery, from empty (though rarely below 20% before I plug it in, and rarely need to go to a full charge), it would cost $31.73 to fill it, and give me 330+ miles of range. Every vehicle, regarless of shape or type will have a battery that will, on average, cost (here) $0.29 per kw to fill. If a car might be a half the size of the Rivian (looking at you, Telo), but if it has a (theoretical) 106kw battery, it will still cost the same to fill is as a, say, the Rivian. BUT, and this is the big but, that $0.29 / $0.25 figure has not changed since we started owning EV's almost 2 years ago. And speed of charge will make no difference a kW at a 200kw charger costs that same as a kW at a 400kw charger. But with electric - hey! Electricity didn't soar from $2.39 to $4.99 over the period of 3 weeks. It remains consistent. And that, along with the lighter routine maintainence, is why we drive EV's.

I have begun using the Tesla Supercharging network again so that we have a chance to bank some solar net credits to offset our power costs for Winter. Over the past month, it has cost me about $15 a week to put roughly 50kW of power back into the truck each week. Husband is still charging up his Model Y when he gets home. His L2 charging has run $140 for the month of June or roughly $28 a week (he commutes 60 miles a day to work plus side errands).

But as I have stated in other posts on this forum, I feel NOTHING for those ICE drivers and I really don't care to hear them moaning about the price of gas. As they say on "The Simpson's", "HA! HA!" You had how many years to wrap your head around how the price of oil is managed yet you still bought the Detroit hype that EV's are bad? And we love when we see the Swamp Yankees barreling next to us in their modified diesels where they "roll coal" as if in some form of "I'm showing YOU, Libs!". We just point out as he (always a he) whoops and hollers down road, "Well, there goes another gallon of diesel fuel! Ca-CHING!"" All I can say is, good luck to you.

I am glad to hear of the senisbility coming our of Europe and Asia; to not be beholden to oil and to embrace green energy, and that they are essentially eating our lunch on the topic. Perhaps, some day, the US will become a leader in something other than "clean coal" and proposed Walmart nuclear.

I'll come off my soapbox now.

 

[Yamazaki]

The reason why the R2 will replace the '17 Forester and not the much "thirstier" '04 Forester is because the joy of driving the '04 cannot be matched by an EV (at least not yet). The driver is more integrated with the machine through addition of the shifter, clutch, and handbrake, and in a good manual transmission vehicle it creates a deeper bond with the car. An EV has none of those. I'm not saying there are no EV's that are good or fun to drive, I'm saying the level of connectedness with the vehicle is not the same. And so, even though the older vehicle gets pretty poor gas mileage compared to the newer one - the joy of driving it is what makes us want to keep it. The EV will be a utility- something to use. Our '04 Forester is an indulgence- something to enjoy.

 

[hammick]

The reason why the R2 will replace the '17 Forester and not the much "thirstier" '04 Forester is because the joy of driving the '04 cannot be matched by an EV (at least not yet). The driver is more integrated with the machine through addition of the shifter, clutch, and handbrake, and in a good manual transmission vehicle it creates a deeper bond with the car. An EV has none of those. I'm not saying there are no EV's that are good or fun to drive, I'm saying the level of connectedness with the vehicle is not the same. And so, even though the older vehicle gets pretty poor gas mileage compared to the newer one - the joy of driving it is what makes us want to keep it. The EV will be a utility- something to use. Our '04 Forester is an indulgence- something to enjoy.

Interesting. I've never had an ICE vehicle that I looked forward to driving every single day. Not even my M3 Beemers. We've been an EV only household for over three years now and bought our fist EV five years ago. Driving them is always fun. The ICE loaner I had three weeks ago was a POS and I dreaded driving it.

Even though road trips take longer we enjoy our charging stops. We get out and move around more and feel much more refreshed after a long day (I'm sure the Autonomy and SuperCruise is a big part of that).

We will never own another ICE vehicle again and am hopeful classic car EV conversions become common/affordable while I'm still young enough to wrench.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

It's up to preference.

• Are you a truck person, SUV person or sedan person?
• Are you a Ford person or a GM person?
• Are you a US brand or an Asian brand loyalist?
• Do you prefer VW or Mercedes over BMW?
• Do you prefer electric over gas or hybrid?

When we were ICE owners, and at the gas pump paying $2.39 a gallon, and we'd see the Land Rover, Audi or Mercedes at the next pump over using the $3.49 per gallon high octane, we just shook our heads in disbelif on "How could ANYBODY want to drive a vehicle that requires an expensive gas to operate!" then go into our usual round-robin discussion of quality the given brand. Same with watching someone in a jacked up, black-out F-150 Lariat or Jeep Commander that surely "...never sees more than 12mpg, and has had HOW many recalls last week?".

But it came down to - those owners preferred those vehicle over all others. Out of what? Brand loyalty or familiarity? Peer pressure? Accepted hype?

We (husband and I) prefer electric. I was firmly in the Nissan court until I went Rivian. Don't care if it's a Tesla, Rivan, Nissan Leaf (out of production at time of switch) or Slate, we prefer electric. Yes, we pay here in Southern New England an average of $0.29 per kw to charge at public charging, $0.25 at home (no discounts). The RIvian has a 109.4kW battery, from empty (though rarely below 20% before I plug it in, and rarely need to go to a full charge), it would cost $31.73 to fill it, and give me 330+ miles of range. Every vehicle, regarless of shape or type will have a battery that will, on average, cost (here) $0.29 per kw to fill. If a car might be a half the size of the Rivian (looking at you, Telo), but if it has a (theoretical) 106kw battery, it will still cost the same to fill is as a, say, the Rivian. BUT, and this is the big but, that $0.29 / $0.25 figure has not changed since we started owning EV's almost 2 years ago. And speed of charge will make no difference a kW at a 200kw charger costs that same as a kW at a 400kw charger. But with electric - hey! Electricity didn't soar from $2.39 to $4.99 over the period of 3 weeks. It remains consistent. And that, along with the lighter routine maintainence, is why we drive EV's.

I have begun using the Tesla Supercharging network again so that we have a chance to bank some solar net credits to offset our power costs for Winter. Over the past month, it has cost me about $15 a week to put roughly 50kW of power back into the truck each week. Husband is still charging up his Model Y when he gets home. His L2 charging has run $140 for the month of June or roughly $28 a week (he commutes 60 miles a day to work plus side errands).

But as I have stated in other posts on this forum, I feel NOTHING for those ICE drivers and I really don't care to hear them moaning about the price of gas. As they say on "The Simpson's", "HA! HA!" You had how many years to wrap your head around how the price of oil is managed yet you still bought the Detroit hype that EV's are bad? And we love when we see the Swamp Yankees barreling next to us in their modified diesels where they "roll coal" as if in some form of "I'm showing YOU, Libs!". We just point out as he (always a he) whoops and hollers down road, "Well, there goes another gallon of diesel fuel! Ca-CHING!"" All I can say is, good luck to you.

I am glad to hear of the senisbility coming our of Europe and Asia; to not be beholden to oil and to embrace green energy, and that they are essentially eating our lunch on the topic. Perhaps, some day, the US will become a leader in something other than "clean coal" and proposed Walmart nuclear.

I'll come off my soapbox now.

I was an all-EV household for the past 3 years. I'm trading my Rivian in for an ICE Ram RHO on Tuesday. I love an EV for daily driving, but long trips to remote areas are a massive pain in the ass. I have a property that's 50-60 miles from the nearest charger. When I go there in winter, I have to charge every single day and spend 3 hours of my day dealing with it. My other choice is install an electrical service for 10K, and pay a monthly fee for a few times a year use.

That's not to mention the cost of an EV. I paid 113K for my R1S less than two years ago, and I'm getting 68K on trade. Yes, I know I can get a few dollars more in a private sale, but it would be offset by the tax savings from the trade. The truck I'm replacing it with is bigger, has more features, and is under 80K. Not everyone can afford that kind of terrible depreciation.

EVs aren't sensible for everyone, and Rivian's aren't a sensible EV, so I'd hop down off that high horse.

 

[hammick]

I was an all-EV household for the past 3 years. I'm trading my Rivian in for an ICE Ram RHO on Tuesday. I love an EV for daily driving, but long trips to remote areas are a massive pain in the ass. I have a property that's 50-60 miles from the nearest charger. When I go there in winter, I have to charge every single day and spend 3 hours of my day dealing with it. My other choice is install an electrical service for 10K, and pay a monthly fee for a few times a year use.

That's not to mention the cost of an EV. I paid 113K for my R1S less than two years ago, and I'm getting 68K on trade. Yes, I know I can get a few dollars more in a private sale, but it would be offset by the tax savings from the trade. The truck I'm replacing it with is bigger, has more features, and is under 80K. Not everyone can afford that kind of terrible depreciation.

EVs aren't sensible for everyone, and Rivian's aren't a sensible EV, so I'd hop down off that high horse.

Did you think about taking that 15 - 20k cost to get into that RAM and install a solar system instead? We have an offgrid vacation place and we charge our R1S from solar. Takes a few days to reach 70% SOC but we have a SxS for our daily outings. Plus our town with the restaurants has free 11kw L2 charging and the town with the Costco, Wallyworld, etc. has Superchargers.

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