Rivian R1T in World’s Toughest Towing Test on Ike Gauntlet [by TFL]

[Max]

Wind resistance is by far the largest factor.

Of course but you can’t always go back in time and redesign that F100 you are towing. However, you may be able to find a scenic rout and drive slower. Anything that helps.

Does anyone know if there are any apps or websites that identify tow friendly charging stations?

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[branden]

Of course but you can’t always go back in time and redesign that F100 you are towing. However, you may be able to find a scenic rout and drive slower. Anything that helps.

Does anyone know if there are any apps or websites that identify tow friendly charging stations?

I don't know of any sites specifically targeted to helping with towing, but Plugshare has photos of almost every station and that's usually enough to scope out a route and see which stations are better than others.

 

[E.S.]

I’m not surprised by the range decrease. From Boulder to Golden, along 93, is all uphill.

I am. I had expected this to do much worse. Remember, it wasn't just weight that the Rivian had to concern itself with, but weather too. That it did better than my expectations left me impressed.

The biggest negative is all the time taken in recharging.

This will continue being an issue until the nation catches up on updating and upgrading infrastructure support. Not to mention not relying only on EA for charging (as they are well known to have charge rate concerns).

I agree, this truck does not charge the way it should.

One should also take into consideration that EA is well known not to hand-shake well with a lot of EVs, including VW (their parent company). One of these days, I'd like to see how well a Rivian (or any EV for that matter) charges at a ChargePoint, EVGo, RAN, and other non-EA chargers (once they become more abundant).

 

[SANZC02]

@TFLtommy, I liked the test, gives a pretty good real world what to expect if towing. Good to know it can easily handle the load if you need to but if you are regularly towing loads like this any distance probably not the best choice.

I’ll be interested to see if the estimated range drops by 50% on a smaller load or if it is factoring in tongue weight to calculate range when going to tow mode. I’m also curious if you had to select tow mode. If not, with a smaller load on flat highways could you have put the truck into conserve mode instead?

 

[Forager]

As for the charging people just aren’t going to unhitch to charge. To the average consumer hitching is one of the most stressful things about trailering and folks aren’t going to take the time, or risk (leaving your unhitched bailable toys/trailer in a parking area) while charging.

I’ve been thinking about this, and you are right, connecting a trailer isn’t easy the first few times. However, I don’t think it’s a valid enough reason to forgo ettiequte. The hardest part of hitching is getting lined up, which, with 360 degree cameras and mandatory backup cameras makes the process massively simpler. Anyone towing a vehicle long enough distances to require charging should be educated enough on towing that hitching is the least stressful part of the whole ordeal.

Any trailer owner with “toys” will have a trailer hitch lock, plus they’ll generally be in line of sight of the trailer during charging. If hitching is such an arduous process, I doubt any criminal will be able to hitch up to a trailer (after disabling a lock) and drive off while the owner is inside the 7-11 for their bathroom break.

This all said, I know for some trailering will be a rare and uncommon occurrence. I don’t expect someone pulling a U-Haul to be a pro, and they can block all drive aisles they need in order to get to where they are going. But some pulling a boat, RV, or flatbed? No way.

 

[Joints4Sale]

I encourage everyone to contact the charging companies to make them aware that we need to be able to charge while towing without having to disconnect our trailers.

I started a new thread with links to the major charging companies "Contact" pages.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...es-to-make-charging-while-towing-easier.3490/

 

[Max]

I don’t have much towing experience but if I understand this correctly, I can see people keeping trailer break at lower settings and use the roller to pump it up when things get dicey.

Better than Sunday morning cartoons.

I wager that the lack of regen downhill was because the batteries were too hot, which would also explain the low charge rate once the batteries hit 40% SOC at the EA.

Cannot believe they left the trailer connected while charging and blocking most of a drive aisle. Sure the lot isn’t packed full, but it still seems inconsiderate. What if a few more EVs showed up to charge? This seems like glimpse into the near future when more people will be towing EV caravans for summer vacation but when the charging network still isn’t built out to properly accommodate trailering.

The difference is that towing in summer makes it even more challenging to keep the battery cool. We may need another test in July.

Many of the major convenience store / gas station chains are getting into DCFC and I think that will be hugely beneficial for towing as the stations will likely be pull through.

It would be very interesting to see how that develops over time. For gas stations that don’t get much business it makes a lot of sense. It would be additional source of revenue that helps them sell food and snacks too since EV drivers have more time to kill. However for a busy gas station with limited land, they have to make that electricity very expensive to make economic sense; letting a Rivian sit there for an hour should be as profitable as 10 F150 ICE going through.

If I had a gas station, I would make sure, I have the fastest charging available earlier than everyone else. I wouldn’t be surprised if cost per KWh increase at slower charge rate especially at busy times
to encourage you get out of there and open up the space for the next EV. If that happens, it may push manufactures to improve their charging curve even more.

On our cross -country Airstream trips, we don't often tow over 300 miles in a day. When we get our R1T, we plan to use it to tow the Airstream. We hope that we will be able to get 100 miles per charge on average. We believe that we could handle two charging sessions per day. This would allow us to continue our Airstream travels using the R1T as our primary tow vehicle.

Really interested in your Experience after you get your R1. Did you order a Max pack?
Also would you tow with R1S and it’s inflatable spare?

 

[the long way downunder]

I think for some (anyone who wants to tow more than about 200 miles in a day) the slow rate of "fast charging" is a dealbreaker. What's the maximum rate of charge; 210kW?

As noted, a few other EVs have much higher charge rates – as the newest of 'em all, Rivian should be arriving with the fastest charging, not 100kW, more like 300kW.

I was sort of expecting they'd bring the F-150 Hybrid as their support vehicle (it could "trickle" charge the Rivian while towing it, if need be) and even start the test with the R1 at 100% by towing it to the start of the test! (not real world, just a way to remove variables like battery condition) and it would be fun to see the Hybrid towing and charging the EV pickup, then see the EV pickup towing the Hybrid pickup through the Ike test.

Strange they didn't stop and think about brake regen and the trailer brake controller – I think they needed to repeat the whole day with regen at max and the trailer braking at minimum to see the impact. Hopefully they put some thought into the flat terrain towing test. I assume only a fractional improvement, but I suspect the downhill segment regenerated only 1% because the trailer brakes were throwing energy away as heat. Of course there's the matter of safety and control when coasting downhill with zero trailer braking effort – you'd at least want to practice using that thumbwheel brake in case you ever did get into a situation (downhill on gravel comes to mind.) I'd like to see Rivian offer an accessory trailer brake controller with the conventional physical squeeze control … when needed, I'd rather not find the limits of the stability software and be tinkering with a thumbwheel on the steering wheel as the trailer starts to fishtail …

 

[Harvest]

I've towed a wide variety of agricultural equipment, a lot of it pretty heavy, with both half-ton and one-ton pickups. I also have a lighter weight aluminum trailer I tow all the time with my Honda Pilot and sometimes pull heavier rented trailers with the Pilot. Overall, I'm impressed with what I saw from the test, putting the range issues aside for a moment. Normally, pulling an 8000 load or anything close to it with a half-ton pickup up a steep grade would have the truck engine roaring like crazy, the transmission hunting gears, and in the steepest parts speed would drop below the optimum. On the downhill, it would be a bit nerve-racking to keep the brakes from over-heating. The Rivian aced all of that and did it quietly and comfortably. Also, the fact that the Rivian is able to self-level with the air suspension is a nice feature. I've had half-ton trucks with a heavy trailer really squatting down in the rear, which affects their stability while driving. So lots of things to like about this TFL report on how the Rivian did towing a heavy load.

Now I totally get the range issue could be a deal breaker for some people that need to tow really heavy loads frequently and for long distances, like a maxed out big RV. But most people don't haul all that far, or can take time to stop, the Rivian should work very well.

Like some others have commented, I have to believe regular gas stations will start adding EV charging at some point. Will that take 10% market penetration by EV vehicles, or something less? Hopefully one of the national chains, maybe BP (now stands for Beyond Petroleum after all) will show some foresight and start converting one gas island per station to electric, or add them at the side of the station lot where a truck and trailer can pull in easily without blocking traffic. As someone pointed out, the electric vehicle would need to sit there somewhat longer than a gas vehicle, but a lot of people in gas vehicles are inside the gas station for 15 minutes or more by the time they hit the restroom, meander the shopping isles, stand in line for awhile, etc. So a 30 minute partial charge stop might only be displacing two gas vehicles. Hopefully Rivian trucks will be able to charge more quickly than what was shown today as Rivian improves it's software and battery technology.

 

[the long way downunder]

I don’t have much towing experience but if I understand this correctly, I can see people keeping trailer break at lower settings and use the roller to pump it up when things get dicey.

The difference is that towing in summer makes it even more challenging to keep the battery cool. We may need another test in July.

Also would you tow with R1S and it’s inflatable spare?

Good point – setting the vehicle regen to max and the trailer brake controller to min "should" increase the net regenerated energy. Regen input is only a small fraction of what the motors can output, but could result in some battery heating (which would use energy for the vehicle to keep the battery temps regulated, but still should be a net gain of some energy.)

A full size spare for the vehicle and another for the trailer is what I'd call "minimum" – it used to be possible to order a trailer with the same wheel (lug spacing) and tire as the tow vehicle. I'm not sure that's possible or at least not common today. It would be something for Rivian and Airstream to coordinate – Airstream has an EV trailer.
https://www.airstream.com/estream/

 

[Taycanfrank]

To the above, I don't think people realize how incredibly expensive & labor intensive it is to install & maintain a 150kw charger, let alone a 350kw charger. While it might seem convenient to an EV owner, a gas station is absolutely making more money more easily by selling gas.

Saturation of EVs would have to be well over 10% to make it economically viable to swap space you can use to sell gas for electricity and you'd have to charge just an absurd amount for the electricity.

 

[Joints4Sale]

Most gas stations make minimal profits on their sale of gasoline. They make far more money selling items in the store.

 

[tojesky]

...

Saturation of EVs would have to be well over 10% to make it economically viable to swap space you can use to sell gas for electricity and you'd have to charge just an absurd amount for the electricity.

https://findanyanswer.com/what-is-the-profit-margin-for-gas-stations
from this link: "But before you cry foul, you should know that after all the ups and downs in a year, gas stations do not make much money from selling gasoline. After credit card fees and other operating costs, net profit for gasoline sales averages 3 cents a gallon, according the National Association of Convenience Stores."

I agree, more EVs will be needed on the road before C-Stores start installing DCFCs.

 

[TFLtommy]

I really am not in favor of this trailer coast concept.

Trailer brakes are one of those things you don’t think about until you are emergency braking for a road incident and the trailer passes you in the next lane cause you reduced the braking force. Unless you are a fruit ninja world champion your thumb is not going to respond fast enough in an emergency situation.

It’s also worth noting our gain was set up pretty conservatively, wasn’t dialed in to be especially aggressive on the brakes.

 

[Taycanfrank]

Most gas stations make minimal profits on their sale of gasoline. They make far more money selling items in the store.

This only proves my point, though. It's all the more reason you wouldn't put a huge amount of money into installing and maintaining a supercharger!

People in EVs are still going to stop at gas stations for snacks, it's the easiest place to do it. Why spend hundreds of thousands to convert a gas stall to an electric stall and then have to pay to maintain it? Not to mention your gas loving customers that it will piss off and will go elsewhere when they see you installed an EV charger.

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