R1T Dead Last in EV Pickup Sales

[sssinc1]

The cost is killing them. We tried to become a two R1 family in July. Rivian wouldn't play ball even though I saw first time buyers post on Reddit about free colors and options. Maybe I had the wrong sales associate. Ended up with a '26 AT4 ER that has better range and charging and is a full sized truck. Right around 70k after discounts and the tax credit. We couldn't pass that up.

That's the truck I wanted when I got my R1T Tri but it was not out yet and the Denalli 24" was a no go for the amount of snow and dirt I drive on. Planning to switch to that when my lease is over (also missing having a full size truck thats more work oriented). Can you share some more of your thoughts on it?

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[Zoidz]

My two cents, as someone who is definitely the target demo, reserved one early, but ultimately never purchased:

- The sales experience both times I tried was awful, on par with typical dealerships. I straight up lost my $1000 deposit because the first sales person told me I could stack friends and family discount so I picked a more expensive truck. Come to find out two weeks later I couldn't and they wouldn't let me switch to a cheaper one. Just way too many gimmicky promotions in general. Also, vehicles in the shop were often not real inventory, couldn't see lease numbers without applying for a very long time, and there was just too much friction in the process.

-They have been changing too many things in order to reduce cost and four years in are still struggling to deliver on quality and reliability. I don't care that you removed 40 miles of wiring. I care that the truck looks as close to perfect on delivery and won't leave me stranded.

-The upside of Rivian only selling 2500 trucks a quarter is they should be able to make every single one immaculate before delivery. Instead, they deliver many quality issues and burden the customer with getting things fixed. Tesla was horrible with this for years but has gotten much better.

-It is unacceptable that an $80K BEV truck with a massive battery pack cannot deliver as much V2L as a Kia EV6. BEV trucks are so limited on what they can do, to not let people use the pack as basic home backup is ridiculous.

-It is unacceptable than an $80K BEV truck is available with a sound system that is worse than what you get in a $35K Model 3.

- The "huge spider web of capability" afforded by the expensive and complex hydraulic anti-roll system is not really appropriate for semi-mainstream $80K truck and likely kneecaps their ability to make a profit. Perhaps this system should be only on the Tri/Quad, but your bread and butter truck should just have normal adjustable dampers, perhaps even on coil springs.

-The clicking axles are still an issue, and IMO, the result of Rivian again not being able to reign in their spider web. The massive range of ground clearance is awesome, but it's also not being used by 95% of buyers, all of whom are listening to worsening drivetrain clunks on their way to the mall. Only offer this capability on the "max offroad" trim, to people who need it and will put up with it.

- The way Rivian handled & continues to handle the power tonneau is pretty terrible. They sold that thing as one of the key features of the truck and have been playing games with it since day one. Every single truck should be able to get the new one.

- Nitpicky, but I don't think mechanical disconnects are a good long term solution for chasing efficiency on dual motor powertrains. I would happily take a 10% range and charging cost penalty than deal with the clunk and possible failure.

All this being said, I am still excited to have an R2 reservation and hope they can stick the landing.

Some of your comments are fact, a lot of it is opinion. A few reply comments:
- Sales experience is all over the board. Mine was perfect. Gimmicky promotions are a fact of cars sales process when sales are down. That's nothing new for the past 60+ years or more. Should Rivian do it? They gotta do what they gotta do to sell vehicles in a competitive, poltically charged market.
- Changing design/components/cost reduction is what the entire auto industry does, lol. Rivian's change to zonal wiring architecture was necessary - the electronic OEMs and their industry associaton has been planning and forewarning the zonal transition was coming since 2018 - 2019 -it's an INDUSTRY thing, not a Rivian thing. This is akin to complaining that phones, TVs, etc. evolve and change as time marches on. If Rivian didn't change, then you would be complaining that they are archaic designs.
- "Unacceptable" V2L and Sound System is highly subjective based on buyers needs and expectations. What's unacceptable to you is clearly acceptable to thousands of buyers. Might you recognize that you might be in a minority opinion on these items?
- The air suspension is certainly a premium design and has its issues. Not everyone needs it capabilities. BUT remember where/how Rivian intended the R1 to be positioned when released. It was never intended to be the vehicle for the average EV Truck/SUV consumer driving to the mall and it still is not. R1 is a flagship, R2 is the Rivian for the masses. The BUYER chose the vehicle with the offered feature set and use it as a mall cruiser. How is that Rivian's fault, anymore than someone buying a Porsche 911 GT3 and using it as a mall cruiser? Rivian did not hold a gun to anyone's head forcing a purchase. Whether Rivian should have offered a lower model with conventional suspension and the marketing/positioning impact of such a decision has been discussed here ad nauseum. Second guessing Rivian's business and marketing plan is futile. Like what they offer or don't buy it. SImple.
- QC/QA issues have been all over the place and Rivian needs to improve FTQ.

Some might see this as a fanboy post, I assure you it is not. It's simply accepting the reality of a startup company with a well defined business and marketing plan and them executing it, whether all consumers agree or not.

 

[an-thu-knee]

How did they get these numbers? I thought rivian does not disclose between R1S and R1T deliveries. And in q3 this year they delivered over 13,000 vehicles.

 

[hammick]

That's the truck I wanted when I got my R1T Tri but it was not out yet and the Denalli 24" was a no go for the amount of snow and dirt I drive on. Planning to switch to that when my lease is over (also missing having a full size truck thats more work oriented). Can you share some more of your thoughts on it?

Coming from a Lightning Lariat ER that got lemon lawed back to Ford it's an upgrade in almost every way. The Lightning was significantly faster but the AT4 ER is plenty fast for my needs. The Lightning was a little smoother and more quiet but the range and charging speed of the Sierra EV blows the Lightning and R1 away. We road trip a lot and that was the most important factor for us. I think the AT4 EV is a great looking truck. My Lightning was just another F150 and I don't think they really look good or bad, just like a truck.

Downside of the AT4 is you are forced into having the midgate if you get the premium package and that severely limited tonneau cover options. Hopefully that will change as more of these sell.

The hardware on the Sierra EV is excellent but the software is half baked. It will do everything you need it to but it's kind of cumbersome at times. And don't get me started on how many times I have been in the truck ready to go only to discover I forgot my KEY fob. It's infuriating but that's the culture at GM (status quo). Supposedly our truck will get PAAK by the end of the year.

I think the AT4 is the sweet spot in the lineup. No air suspension to worry about or maintain and if you get the ER version with premium package no glass roof which we didn't want and still 400 miles of EPA range.

The rear steering allows this truck to maneuver like no other full size truck can.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you need more info.

 

[Zoidz]

How did they get these numbers? I thought rivian does not disclose between R1S and R1T deliveries. And in q3 this year they delivered over 13,000 vehicles.

Typically these numbers can be extracted from publically avaiable state registration data.

 

[sssinc1]

Coming from a Lightning Lariat ER that got lemon lawed back to Ford it's an upgrade in almost every way. The Lightning was significantly faster but the AT4 ER is plenty fast for my needs. The Lightning was a little smoother and more quiet but the range and charging speed of the Sierra EV blows the Lightning and R1 away. We road trip a lot and that was the most important factor for us. I think the AT4 EV is a great looking truck. My Lightning was just another F150 and I don't think they really look good or bad, just like a truck.

Downside of the AT4 is you are forced into having the midgate if you get the premium package and that severely limited tonneau cover options. Hopefully that will change as more of these sell.

The hardware on the Sierra EV is excellent but the software is half baked. It will do everything you need it to but it's kind of cumbersome at times. And don't get me started on how many times I have been in the truck ready to go only to discover I forgot my KEY fob. It's infuriating but that's the culture at GM (status quo). Supposedly our truck will get PAAK by the end of the year.

I think the AT4 is the sweet spot in the lineup. No air suspension to worry about or maintain and if you get the ER version with premium package no glass roof which we didn't want and still 400 miles of EPA range.

The rear steering allows this truck to maneuver like no other full size truck can.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you need more info.

Thanks for taking thr time, much appreciated! I came from an F150 Hybrid to the Rivian, agree with you. Test drove the Sierra Denalli EV and liked it, just the wheel/tire combination.

 

[ksumnole]

The cost is killing them. We tried to become a two R1 family in July. Rivian wouldn't play ball even though I saw first time buyers post on Reddit about free colors and options. Maybe I had the wrong sales associate. Ended up with a '26 AT4 ER that has better range and charging and is a full sized truck. Right around 70k after discounts and the tax credit. We couldn't pass that up.

Congratulations on your Chevy? With all due respect, that EV is so ugly I wouldn't buy it even for half the price. Hell, if someone gave me any Chhhhhhevie I would sell it right back and use it as a down payment for something else. The longest range? You forgot to mention terrible efficiency, worst then the Elon trash can.

 

[CompilerBreak]

Ford and Chevy have both been making better financing offers which stack with other deals (Ford mailed me an extra $2k off). Rivian is finally offering 1.99% financing, but post-tax credit loss, so who knows how that will net out.

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

I imagine that with a strong dealer network, Rivian could easily sell two to three times more R1t's and R1's overall than it does today. I understand that’s not their business model, but I genuinely believe it’s true.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I imagine that with a strong dealer network, Rivian could easily sell two to three times more R1t's and R1's overall than it does today. I understand that’s not their business model, but I genuinely believe it’s true.

You're not wrong, and the slow growth is a price to pay for not being beholden to a dealer network. Considering what unfolded with the ADMs this last time, I think it's in everyone's long-term best interests to continue with a direct sales model. Once the R2 comes out, there will be a large enough market willing to buy them directly that it won't matter.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

You're not wrong, and the slow growth is a price to pay for not being beholden to a dealer network. Considering what unfolded with the ADMs this last time, I think it's in everyone's long-term best interests to continue with a direct sales model. Once the R2 comes out, there will be a large enough market willing to buy them directly that it won't matter.

And the long game is exactly what it is all about in the car business. All the analysts, pundits and keyboard experts are concerned about is the short-term. For the OEMs, even legacy ones, they can't think only short-term if they want to stay in business. Majority of their business planning/strategy effort is on the long-term (most of which they don't talk to anyone about). Like 30-year plans.

Lots of consumers are sick of dealerships. Visit a few, it's immediately clear why. And, privately, traditional OEMs do not like dealerships either—for the same reason. But, it's the way it's always been for them and a necessary evil.

 

[savethemanual]

And the long game is exactly what it is all about in the car business. All the analysts, pundits and keyboard experts are concerned about is the short-term. For the OEMs, even legacy ones, they can't think only short-term if they want to stay in business. Majority of their business planning/strategy effort is on the long-term (most of which they don't talk to anyone about). Like 30-year plans.

Lots of consumers are sick of dealerships. Visit a few, it's immediately clear why. And, privately, traditional OEMs do not like dealerships either—for the same reason. But, it's the way it's always been for them and a necessary evil.

100 percent! And while looking at that long view...EV's are clearly the future for light duty vehicles, the current blip with POTUS and his stance will be behind us in no time.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

100 percent! And while looking at that long view...EV's are clearly the future for light duty vehicles, the current blip with POTUS and his stance will be behind us in no time.

We're already behind. The disruption and delay to NEVI funds and loans. The amount of canceled renewable energy projects. The battery and solar panel manufacturing plans that are now scraped. If we aren't dead last three years from now, we'll be damn close.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

And the long game is exactly what it is all about in the car business. All the analysts, pundits and keyboard experts are concerned about is the short-term. For the OEMs, even legacy ones, they can't think only short-term if they want to stay in business. Majority of their business planning/strategy effort is on the long-term (most of which they don't talk to anyone about). Like 30-year plans.

The analysts are concerned with Rivian’s long term plan. Right now Rivian’s plan is to sell a midsize all EV SUV for $50k+ and they are betting the company on it. All with declining revenues in the interim to fund it.

The R2 will not launch Rivian. There is no pent up demand for this car. There was for the Model 3 and Y. Rivian’s strategy is sadly about 7 years behind.

What Rivian needs is a revenue stream alongside the R2. A big one. Like subscription to autonomous driving. Anything to compliment R2 sales. Tesla’s (fake) side gigs are why they are afloat in a market that has completely turned negative on EVs. This is why the long term plan for Rivian is lacking. RJ has to go.

I say this because I really want Rivian to succeed. And just saying they are awesome doesn’t really help.

 

[savethemanual]

The analysts are concerned with Rivian’s long term plan. Right now Rivian’s plan is to sell a midsize all EV SUV for $50k+ and they are betting the company on it. All with declining revenues in the interim to fund it.

The R2 will not launch Rivian. There is no pent up demand for this car. There was for the Model 3 and Y. Rivian’s strategy is sadly about 7 years behind.

What Rivian needs is a revenue stream alongside the R2. A big one. Like subscription to autonomous driving. Anything to compliment R2 sales. Tesla’s (fake) side gigs are why they are afloat in a market that has completely turned negative on EVs. This is why the long term plan for Rivian is lacking. RJ has to go.

I say this because I really want Rivian to succeed. And just saying they are awesome doesn’t really help.

The Rivian brand is too good to collapse, if they don't make it long term financially on their own someone will surely pick them up at at discount and continue on with deeper pockets. They have overcome so many obstacles already, they have the Grit!

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