Rivian vs Tesla - battery degradation

[shap]

It's clear the number is incorrect. How much and/or why is the better question

I opened a service ticket asking them to let me know the current degradation %. Let see

On a separate note it seems that Ford EV's as well as GM show much lower battery degradation than Tesla.

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[pamalabama]

I opened a service ticket asking them to let me know the current degradation %. Let see

On a separate note it seems that Ford EV's as well as GM show much lower battery degradation than Tesla.

Tesla has a new battery health test (compared to the one they've had for years) and it looks like they let you see the real degradation

Worth mentioning that many people who buy Ford and GM EVs are buying a car thats sat on the lot for more than 1 year. Some dealers still have 2023 models

 

[akc5247]

I have my 2024 R1S for ~15 months now and have put ~32,000 miles on it.

Electrafi shows my battery at 130.6 kWh (0% degradation). I charge upto 100% (Level2) almost every other day. I'm not going to baby the vehicle by limiting to 70 or 80% so i will be interested in how the battery degradation will be after another year/2-3-4 years.

 

[DayTripping]

I have my 2024 R1S for ~15 months now and have put ~32,000 miles on it.

Electrafi shows my battery at 130.6 kWh (0% degradation). I charge upto 100% (Level2) almost every other day. I'm not going to baby the vehicle by limiting to 70 or 80% so i will be interested in how the battery degradation will be after another year/2-3-4 years.

I'll play Devil's advocate here. What level do you plan to charge to on a daily basis? How many miles do you drive every day?

It could be for a while before you chew through the buffer and see your real degradation. Studies have also shown that the first year's degradation sets up the pattern for the outlying years if I recall correctly.

FYI - Electrafi only shows the usable capacity and not the gross capacity. So you'll have no real idea how bad the degradation really is until it is too late to do much about it. That is what I saw with my Model Y. It went exactly as expected but it could have been much better.

This is even more true if you live in a hot climate. The higher temps accelerate calender degradation of the batteries. High temps and high SoC (state of charge) is the kiss of death for lithium batteries. This applies to LFP as well even though they are more tolerant.

The destruction of capacity can never been undone. As people become more aware of the impact of degradation, it will also have an effect on the value of your vehicle. Not to mention, the battery warranties allow up to 30% degradation in most cases before they will warranty the battery. That is a pretty massive impact. Then you almost never get new, you'll get a refurbed battery which may already be suffering severe, but within tolerances, degradation.

See the following excerpt from Battery University.

Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated temperature and for most Li-ion a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling. Table 3 demonstrates capacity loss as a function of temperature and SoC.

Temperature	40% Charge	100% Charge
0°C	98% (after 1 year)	94% (after 1 year)
25°C	96% (after 1 year)	80% (after 1 year)
40°C	85% (after 1 year)	65% (after 1 year)
60°C	75% (after 1 year)	60% (after 3 months)

Table 3: Estimated recoverable capacity when storing Li-ion for one year at various temperatures
Elevated temperature hastens permanent capacity loss. Not all Li-ion systems behave the same.

 

[akc5247]

I'll play Devil's advocate here. What level do you plan to charge to on a daily basis? How many miles do you drive every day?

It could be for a while before you chew through the buffer and see your real degradation. Studies have also shown that the first year's degradation sets up the pattern for the outlying years if I recall correctly.

FYI - Electrafi only shows the usable capacity and not the gross capacity. So you'll have no real idea how bad the degradation really is until it is too late to do much about it. That is what I saw with my Model Y. It went exactly as expected but it could have been much better.

This is even more true if you live in a hot climate. The higher temps accelerate calender degradation of the batteries. High temps and high SoC (state of charge) is the kiss of death for lithium batteries. This applies to LFP as well even though they are more tolerant.

The destruction of capacity can never been undone. As people become more aware of the impact of degradation, it will also have an effect on the value of your vehicle. Not to mention, the battery warranties allow up to 30% degradation in most cases before they will warranty the battery. That is a pretty massive impact. Then you almost never get new, you'll get a refurbed battery which may already be suffering severe, but within tolerances, degradation.

See the following excerpt from Battery University.

Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated temperature and for most Li-ion a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling. Table 3 demonstrates capacity loss as a function of temperature and SoC.

Temperature	40% Charge	100% Charge
0°C	98% (after 1 year)	94% (after 1 year)
25°C	96% (after 1 year)	80% (after 1 year)
40°C	85% (after 1 year)	65% (after 1 year)
60°C	75% (after 1 year)	60% (after 3 months)

Table 3: Estimated recoverable capacity when storing Li-ion for one year at various temperatures
Elevated temperature hastens permanent capacity loss. Not all Li-ion systems behave the same.

I drive about 160, sometimes 200 per day.

I understand all that info, but I'm still not going to baby the battery.
I don't plan on keeping it for more than 5-6 years anyway, so I've made my peace with it.

 

[Megaman0025]

Hello,

I looked at my R1T QM 23, after 2 years and 30k miles, and it shows 130.5 kWh battery capacity. Same range as when I took delivery.
Aka almost no degradation at all.

Rivian, like Tesla, uses NMC batteries. Tesla's average degradation for MY is about 7-10% over 2 years.
I also looked at the average degradation for the Ford Lightning, and it is very close to Rivian's.

I find it very interesting. Rivian uses CATL batteries, while Tesla uses Panasonic in MY.
I am not sure if NMC batteries can show no degradation over 2 years in general.

Thoughts on how this is possible? Does it mean that Rivian uses some buffers to reduce degradation and the actual
battery capacity is bigger than 135 kWh (for large)? Or is Rivian BMS so good at reducing degradation vs Tesla?

I was really puzzled when I looked at Tesla's numbers.

Tesla uses NCA on most of its cars not NMC. That may have something to do with it.

 

[shap]

Tesla uses NCA on most of its cars not NMC. That may have something to do with it.

I tried to get this informaiton and it seems they use both

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