Rivian vs Tesla - battery degradation

[shap]

Hello,

I looked at my R1T QM 23, after 2 years and 30k miles, and it shows 130.5 kWh battery capacity. Same range as when I took delivery.
Aka almost no degradation at all.

Rivian, like Tesla, uses NMC batteries. Tesla's average degradation for MY is about 7-10% over 2 years.
I also looked at the average degradation for the Ford Lightning, and it is very close to Rivian's.

I find it very interesting. Rivian uses CATL batteries, while Tesla uses Panasonic in MY.
I am not sure if NMC batteries can show no degradation over 2 years in general.

Thoughts on how this is possible? Does it mean that Rivian uses some buffers to reduce degradation and the actual
battery capacity is bigger than 135 kWh (for large)? Or is Rivian BMS so good at reducing degradation vs Tesla?

I was really puzzled when I looked at Tesla's numbers.

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[BCondrey]

How are you checking the battery capacity? In the service menu? The Gen1 large pack is reported to be 131 usable, with a true size of 135 I thought.

 

[shap]

How are you checking the battery capacity? In the service menu? The Gen1 large pack is reported to be 131 usable, with a true size of 135 I thought.

ABRP will show you battery capacity. Mine is 130+ kwh most of the time.

That is strange , after 2 years.

 

[DayTripping]

They are showing you the usable capacity, not the total. There is some buffer initially.

Two of my current Teslas are over 3 years old. I have used a variety of means to track the degradation, like TeslaFi/Electrafi, Tessie, an annual service mode degradation test, etc. I am about 3% on my 3 and 2% on my Plaid.

I do practice good charging hygiene such as keep it plugged in all the time, set my resting charge level to 50-55%, charge just before I leave to higher if needed, don't go to very low charge levels, etc.

I followed the recommended practices on my Y that Tesla suggested at the time (similar to Rivians), such as charging to 80% was ok, etc. That vehicle had 4% degradation in the first 6 months, and over 7% degradation in the first year. Same battery pack as my 3. After 3 years it was over 15%.

Normally the first year is the worst and will level out a bit after.

 

[shap]

I do not agree with what you said - 15% of degradation in 2 years is not nothing. You bought MY with 330 miles, and after 2 years, it has 285 miles on a full charge.

But my question was different - how comes that Rivian shows less than 1% of degradation after 2 years !? same NMC chemistry ...

 

[emoore]

Like Daytripping said, ABRP is showing battery capacity at the current temperatures. So in the winter it's less than the summer. Mine is showing 129.3 kWh right now but it's 50F outside. It will go up to 130+ when it gets warmer. This is after 2.5 years and 23k miles.

 

[LL75]

teslafi showed 129.7 for me. I guess it did degraded a little?

 

[shap]

Like Daytripping said, ABRP is showing battery capacity at the current temperatures. So in the winter it's less than the summer. Mine is showing 129.3 kWh right now but it's 50F outside. It will go up to 130+ when it gets warmer. This is after 2.5 years and 23k miles.

That is my point ! You see almost no degradation for battery capacity after 2(!!!) years.
And I did a small poll on FB, and no one saw numbers below 1-2% of degradation.

How is this possible for NMC batteries!? If this is really true, Rivian BMS is almost do miracles.

 

[shap]

teslafi showed 129.7 for me. I guess it did degraded a little?

Yep, very little, 1-2% at most. Look for Tesla stats - 10%+ on average for MY LR after 2 years (regardless # of miles). How come Rivian is SO good? (Maybe our batteries actually have a hidden buffer ?)

 

[LL75]

Yep, very little, 1-2% at most. Look for Tesla stats - 10%+ on average for MY LR after 2 years (regardless # of miles). How come Rivian is SO good? (Maybe our batteries actually have a hidden buffer ?)

I used to have two model 3s. One of them degraded 13% after 2 years !!! The other one degraded 5%. Absloutely think there is a buffer. I noticed when we charged to 100%, it takes a while for the miles to go down when you drive.

 

[AireV]

Hello,

I looked at my R1T QM 23, after 2 years and 30k miles, and it shows 130.5 kWh battery capacity. Same range as when I took delivery.
Aka almost no degradation at all.

Rivian, like Tesla, uses NMC batteries. Tesla's average degradation for MY is about 7-10% over 2 years.
I also looked at the average degradation for the Ford Lightning, and it is very close to Rivian's.

I find it very interesting. Rivian uses CATL batteries, while Tesla uses Panasonic in MY.
I am not sure if NMC batteries can show no degradation over 2 years in general.

Thoughts on how this is possible? Does it mean that Rivian uses some buffers to reduce degradation and the actual
battery capacity is bigger than 135 kWh (for large)? Or is Rivian BMS so good at reducing degradation vs Tesla?

I was really puzzled when I looked at Tesla's numbers.

Incorrect information: CATL provides LFP batteries for Gen2 vehicles. For all Gen1s, Rivian used batteries from Samsung SDI. I am not sure whether it is 100% for NMC batteries are from Samsung for Gen2 R1s.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

That is my point ! You see almost no degradation for battery capacity after 2(!!!) years.
And I did a small poll on FB, and no one saw numbers below 1-2% of degradation.

How is this possible for NMC batteries!? If this is really true, Rivian BMS is almost do miracles.

There was a video from Out of Spec last year I believe where they made an offhand quip about how Rivian batteries have performed better than Rivian expected in terms of degradation.
*Edit, Here is one of the clips i found of him mentioning it


What that translates to, who knows, we can only assume the numbers via ABRP, and Electrifi are accurate.

Also, Rivian Gen 1 uses Samsung SDI cells.

 

[rvnappolis]

142.7 kwh still showing in ABRP for me on a 2023 max. 10000 miles, I've owned 1 year.

Manufacturer date is November 2023. It's great to see so little degradation reported by everyone on this thread.

 

[shap]

142.7 kwh still showing in ABRP for me on a 2023 max. 10000 miles, I've owned 1 year.

Manufacturer date is November 2023. It's great to see so little degradation reported by everyone on this thread.

100%. I'm just amazed it is possible. If the numbers are true (and I really hope so), Rivian should be proud and make a marketing campaign!

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