Can you Lemon a car for poor alignment?-UPDATE-They are changing the subframe to a GEN 2 with an added bonus. Update 2: Alignment is worse

[Ngkgb]

I've had my R1T since December 2022. Overall I have been very happy with it, but the nagging alignment and sagging suspension on the right is starting to really bother me. I've brought the truck in a minimum of five times for the alignment and each time they "fix" it and it slightly improves, but then starts veering more and more to the right. Its at the service center right now and they said they won't do another alignment service until I get new tires, which is understandable since I am due for them. They also said they will do an alignment one last time after which they will start to charge me. Huh? The alignment isn't my fault and should be fixed by them under warranty. The tech with me yesterday clearly saw the truck veer and stated as such. At this point Im considering all my options. As for the sagging suspension, apparently the amount of air it releases over a 24 hour period is within spec and not a safety or mechanical issue "per the engineers." Weird, but how am I to respond to this.

Other issues:

1. Had HVAC leak and after they "fixed" it, began having rotten egg smell after heat is running for 10 minutes or so. Costa Mesa service center though it was 12V batteries, but smell persists. We'll see what the Lake Forest service center says.

2. Musty smell from HVAC when AC is on. This has been an ongoing issue. Of course the service center automatically jumps to "we'll change the filter," even though the service center already changed it out a few months ago and I swapped that out for a better one. Lets see if they actually listen and take a closer look

Issues I've given up on:

1. Wind noise. Last time I took it in the tech said they legally cant drive it above 60 mph and so they couldn't replicate it.
2. Gear guard doors won't open from the the main screen. Not a big deal.

UPDATE: I guess perseverance and changing the location of the service center really makes a difference. They will be changing out the subframe to a GEN 2. I knew I wasn't losing my mind. As an added bonus, they accidentally slated me for a retrofit tonneau cover instead of repairing my manual and when they realized it, they were already halfway done so they just finished it at no charge. Very happy with the Lake Forest service center.

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[shap]

You need to look at your state lemon law. Nobody will be able to answer your question generically.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

I've had my R1T since December 2022. Overall I have been very happy with it, but the nagging alignment and sagging suspension on the right is starting to really bother me. I've brought the truck in a minimum of five times for the alignment and each time they "fix" it and it slightly improves, but then starts veering more and more to the right. Its at the service center right now and they said they won't do another alignment service until I get new tires, which is understandable since I am due for them. They also said they will do an alignment one last time after which they will start to charge me. Huh? The alignment isn't my fault and should be fixed by them under warranty. The tech with me yesterday clearly saw the truck veer and stated as such. At this point Im considering all my options. As for the sagging suspension, apparently the amount of air it releases over a 24 hour period is within spec and not a safety or mechanical issue "per the engineers." Weird, but how am I to respond to this.

Other issues:

1. Had HVAC leak and after they "fixed" it, began having rotten egg smell after heat is running for 10 minutes or so. Costa Mesa service center though it was 12V batteries, but smell persists. We'll see what the Lake Forest service center says.

2. Musty smell from HVAC when AC is on. This has been an ongoing issue. Of course the service center automatically jumps to "we'll change the filter," even though the service center already changed it out a few months ago and I swapped that out for a better one. Lets see if they actually listen and take a closer look

Issues I've given up on:

1. Wind noise. Last time I took it in the tech said they legally cant drive it above 60 mph and so they couldn't replicate it.
2. Gear guard doors won't open from the the main screen. Not a big deal.

I’ve been told the steering wheel is programmed to drift right after a second or two if you take your hands off the steering wheel (or hold so lightly that you don’t create torque above a certain threshold). This is a safety feature. If you pass out you don’t want the vehicle to drift into oncoming traffic, you want it to go off the road onto the shoulder. Many people misunderstand this as an alignment problem. Also, most roads are crowned which of course makes you drift right somewhat already.

 

[shap]

I’ve been told the steering wheel is programmed to drift right after a second or two if you take your hands off the steering wheel (or hold so lightly that you don’t create torque above a certain threshold). This is a safety feature. If you pass out you don’t want the vehicle to drift into oncoming traffic, you want it to go off the road onto the shoulder. Many people misunderstand this as an alignment problem. Also, most roads are crowned which of course makes you drift right somewhat already.

That's what I was told as well, but after 3 alignments the SC actually fixed it. Neither of my other cars were doing this.

 

[Ngkgb]

I’ve been told the steering wheel is programmed to drift right after a second or two if you take your hands off the steering wheel (or hold so lightly that you don’t create torque above a certain threshold). This is a safety feature. If you pass out you don’t want the vehicle to drift into oncoming traffic, you want it to go off the road onto the shoulder. Many people misunderstand this as an alignment problem. Also, most roads are crowned which of course makes you drift right somewhat already.

This sounds odd. Rivian loaners I've had didnt do this.

 

[PaythePiper]

I think I also have an alignment issue? Mine is weird though. In the city, so driving about 45-50, my wheel is about 11.5 o’clock to keep it straight. On the highway at 70-70, 12 o’clock is straight. I get the whole road is crowned crap, then why do all my other vehicles not do it? Hand off the wheel the truck always wants to go right- especially from 0-45….. sounds like a design flaw to me?

 

[Red Shirt Wookie]

Doing the alignment in three different height settings will help. I had our T aligned through the SC twice and then my son took it to work to play with it. He did three alignments (High, Medium, Low) and it has been perfect ever since. 20k on the new tires and they still look new.

The bad news is, it's expensive. 3ish hours on the alignment rack can't be cheap.

 

[ham]

I’ve been told the steering wheel is programmed to drift right after a second or two if you take your hands off the steering wheel (or hold so lightly that you don’t create torque above a certain threshold). This is a safety feature. If you pass out you don’t want the vehicle to drift into oncoming traffic, you want it to go off the road onto the shoulder. Many people misunderstand this as an alignment problem. Also, most roads are crowned which of course makes you drift right somewhat already.

Having a vehicle that can't drive straight is a feature now? Give me a break lol

 

[sherold]

I think I also have an alignment issue? Mine is weird though. In the city, so driving about 45-50, my wheel is about 11.5 o’clock to keep it straight. On the highway at 70-70, 12 o’clock is straight. I get the whole road is crowned crap, then why do all my other vehicles not do it? Hand off the wheel the truck always wants to go right- especially from 0-45….. sounds like a design flaw to me?

I think many people here have complained about the poor steering tracking and attributed it to alignment. I questioned it at first but have proven to myself multiple times that the alignment is in fact "OK", a couple different ways.

When driving on a more "rural" crowned road, I notice a consistent pull to the right, which I have to counter while driving. If I start to drift left into the center of the road and eventually into the left lane, I can clearly feel the pull right lessen and lessen until it tracks straight with the wheel at 12:00, and then eventually starts to pull left.

I attribute this to 2 main reasons:

1.) I am running 34" AT tires on a 7,500+ lbs. truck. Past experience running 35" tires on a 3/4 ton diesel pickup, and various other jeeps and off-road setup vehicles has shown that larger and heavier tires steer/handle/track poorly. It gets worse as they get bigger. They "walk" or in my words "waller".

2.) We aren't getting a 1:1 steering experience in regard to input and feedback through the electronic steering. Reference the below not from a 2023 software update. Ever since I read this and received the update, I've been skeptical of how the steering is changing dynamically based on input conditions.

I wouldn't be surprised if point 2 is what is causing the symptoms you are feeling.


Software Update 2023.02.03

Additional Improvements

• Reduced steering effort to maintain straight-ahead driving on crowned roads.

 

[diranged]

So - my truck is in the shop having some work done, and I have some specific experience now with the front subframe, and got some information from the lead tech at the shop about the early subframes, their design issues, and how the updated one fixes it.

First, this information pertains to Gen1 R1T's and R1S's. When I talk about "generation" of the subframe, I am not talking about a "Gen 2 Rivian - aka model year 2024+..", I am talking about a replacement component for the Gen1 vehicles. It is entirely possible its the same component used in the Gen2 vehicles ... but I don't know that it is or isn't.

Backstory: My 2022 R1T vin (~2400) has ~23k miles on it, and had been in the shop one time for an alignment somewhere around the 10k mark that Rivian covered for free. My experience until now has been that the car drove rock solid straight as an arrow, had no steering wheel vibration of any kind, and felt great. I brought my truck in ~23k miles for some "noises" in the front suspension that I had a feeling were related to the subframe, and I was right.

What did Rivian do: Without much discussion at all, just a quick drive to point out the noises the car was making, Rivian quickly determined that two sets of components needed replacement - the jounce lines and the front subframe assembly. They quickly ordered everything in, did the replacement and got the vehicle back to me within a few days ... but ultimately the car went back to the shop for a further noise that wasn't resolved (see my note at the bottom of this about the motors).

Jounce Line Info:The original early-VIN (no idea how early) Jounce lines were smaller in diameter than the later build lines. This smaller diameter apparently does not impact functionality, but leads to something they call the "tweets" in the shop ... a squeeking sort of noise when the front suspension is moving around. While I wasn't actively complaining about that particular noise, they replaced the lines and it definitely reduced that particular noise noticeably.

Subframe Info: Apparently there is a "Gen2" or "V2" front Subframe (not to be confused with the V2 rear-subframe, see note below). The new V2 front subframe apparently has some minor geometry tweaks, but the primary difference is a steel sleeve formed into the aluminum frame where the alignment bolts go in. Let me explain this as best as I understood it from the tech.

In the original design, the entire front subframe was aluminum... including the holes that the alignment bolts slot into. When the bolts were tightened at the factory they are tightened down pretty hard ... but over time its possible for them to become slightly loose. As soon as this happens there is a problem because the bolt itself is made of steel, while its torqued against an aluminum member... that causes the bolt and washer to actually wear score marks into the alignment mounting face which then makes it nearly impossible for them to properly tighten them in the future and keep them from moving. It was just a simple design flaw.

My understanding is that the "v2" or "gen2" subframe has steel sleeves press-fit into the aluminum for the alignment bolts - so that the bolts are tightened against steel (more like other normal cars on the road), so this loosening-over-time shouldn't be an issue going forward.

Side Note - V2 Rear Subframe: Just for edification, I've also had my rear subframe replaced... that was noticed by Rivian during an unrelated service appointment. The original builds had the rear subframe welded together, and those welds started to crack... the new ones are all bolted (I think) together. I am unaware of any other differences to the rear subframe between "V1" and "V2. This was replaced under warranty for me like 12-18 months ago.

Side Note - Motor Issue: Anyone remember @OutofSpecKyle complaining early on about a "tocking" noise when he accelerated and slowed down especially from a stop? Well mine started doing that around ~15000 miles and slowly got more and more noticeable. The Rivian Service team is currently replacing my front motors under warranty because they were "low on oil" and apparently being low on oil can cause "slack between the gears" that can cause that noise. I'm just repeating what was told to me ... it doesn't completely make sense to me, but they are taking care of it under warranty. I guess there was a small slow leak in the front motors that we hadn't noticed.

 

[diranged]

I want to add - that while it sounds like a lot of "problems" ... rivian has treated me great every single time they've worked on the car. I've been able to get loaners probably 70% of the time, and I am currently driving a lovely Launch Edition Quad Motor R1S, so I'm perfectly happy to let Rivian wrench on the car until it's perfect. Would buy again.

 

[diranged]

and had been in the shop one time for an alignment somewhere around the 10k mark that Rivian covered for free

I re-read this and I think its misleading. My truck has been in the shop many many times ... it had just only ever been in once for an alignment. I love my truck, but it hasn't been problem free, and I didn't mean to indicate that.

 

[PaythePiper]

I think many people here have complained about the poor steering tracking and attributed it to alignment. I questioned it at first but have proven to myself multiple times that the alignment is in fact "OK", a couple different ways.

When driving on a more "rural" crowned road, I notice a consistent pull to the right, which I have to counter while driving. If I start to drift left into the center of the road and eventually into the left lane, I can clearly feel the pull right lessen and lessen until it tracks straight with the wheel at 12:00, and then eventually starts to pull left.

I attribute this to 2 main reasons:

1.) I am running 34" AT tires on a 7,500+ lbs. truck. Past experience running 35" tires on a 3/4 ton diesel pickup, and various other jeeps and off-road setup vehicles has shown that larger and heavier tires steer/handle/track poorly. It gets worse as they get bigger. They "walk" or in my words "waller".

2.) We aren't getting a 1:1 steering experience in regard to input and feedback through the electronic steering. Reference the below not from a 2023 software update. Ever since I read this and received the update, I've been skeptical of how the steering is changing dynamically based on input conditions.

I wouldn't be surprised if point 2 is what is causing the symptoms you are feeling.


Software Update 2023.02.03

Additional Improvements

• Reduced steering effort to maintain straight-ahead driving on crowned roads.

All your points make sense. It’s just annoying as shit holding my wheel at 11-11.5 o’clock….

my Gen 3 Raptor on 37s didn’t do this. I’m still going with engineering flaw

 

[RD TRP EV]

I re-read this and I think its misleading. My truck has been in the shop many many times ... it had just only ever been in once for an alignment. I love my truck, but it hasn't been problem free, and I didn't mean to indicate that.

How many times has it been in the service center?

 

[AARivian48]

Costa Mesa service center, no surprises there.. I had to keep going back for the same issues. I have achieved to fix all my issues in my first visit to Nashville center when we moved the truck here. amazing staff in Nashville.

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