What do you get for $67,500? Less and less, it appears.

[Aroohoo]

FSD, especially from a startup, is so far away. Even Tesla, Google, etc. are years away from it.

Waymo is technically Level 4. The jump from 4 to 5 is exponential though.

Personally, I think that Level 5 is a pipe dream without huge infrastructure to support it. But I am biased by years of designing automation and controls for Aerospace applications.

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[Autolycus]

Waymo is technically Level 4. The jump from 4 to 5 is exponential though.

Personally, I think that Level 5 is a pipe dream without huge infrastructure to support it. But I am biased by years of designing automation and controls for Aerospace applications.

I don't have anywhere near your level of experience, but I tend to agree about Level 5. It will almost certainly require V2I and V2V communications. It may even require that pretty much no human drivers are allowed on roads.

 

[brianmartin]

yea FSD is a pipe dream. what a scam. i kind of hate how Rivian is trying to be like Tesla. if i wanted a Tesla i would've bought one.

 

[timf]

You have to at least give credit to Rivian for not overselling their functionality to buyers. Rather than selling the prospect of self driving in the future, they are only selling the system's current capabilities. Meanwhile, they are selling investors on the prospect that there will be future opportunities to generate revenue beyond the initial vehicle sale. These are two different audiences and I would hesitate to draw conclusions from claims made to one group but not the other.

As an early adopter, I'm not concerned about being nickeled and dimed in the future. If they do in fact follow Tesla's approach, it took Tesla several years to figure out how to charge customers for connectivity and fast charging. Early buyers were largely grandfathered into these items for free, and the same could end up happening with Rivian.

 

[Trekkie]

man you gotta love the internet, some basic statements are in a financial document and now it's the end of the world.

 

[SeaGeo]

At best they continue to have a communications problem. Their website says new features are included standard at no cost.

 

[RWerksman]

I have a Tesla with HW1 "Highway Autopilot". It's remarkably good at what it does - being a fancy adaptive cruise control and at all speeds lane centering system. It changes lanes reasonably well too.

If Rivian can deliver that in a hands free way, in the same no-cost to me way, I'm good. If they offer a FSD something something after the fact, I'm willing to evaluate it and potentially subscribe.

If Rivian paywalls all of the Driver+ stuff beyond shitty adaptive cruise and crap 'Honda level' vibrate-the-steering-wheel-when-your-already-out-the-lane-LKAS, I'm going to be really, really pissed.

I wish they were more communitive on this. It consistently annoys me.

 

[SeaGeo]

I have a Tesla with HW1 "Highway Autopilot". It's remarkably good at what it does - being a fancy adaptive cruise control and at all speeds lane centering system. It changes lanes reasonably well too.

If Rivian can deliver that in a hands free way, in the same no-cost to me way, I'm good. If they offer a FSD something something after the fact, I'm willing to evaluate it and potentially subscribe.

If Rivian paywalls all of the Driver+ stuff beyond shitty adaptive cruise and crap 'Honda level' vibrate-the-steering-wheel-when-your-already-out-the-lane-LKAS, I'm going to be really pissed.

I'm pretty sure they'll deliver the bluecruise or similar as part of the standard driver+. I suspect the $10k is a pipe dream for level 3 to help with their valuation.

 

[Kmann1994]

This post is ridiculous.

 

[DucRider]

At best they continue to have a communications problem. Their website says new features are included standard at no cost.

You read that as every new feature available will be no cost?
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver
They are crystal clear on the minimum that will be included.
As they announce new features, some may require Membership, some may not. Beta versions will only be thru Membership.

 

[SeaGeo]

You read that as every new feature available will be no cost?
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver
They are crystal clear on the minimum that will be included.
As they announce new features, some may require Membership, some may not. Beta versions will only be thru Membership.

Actually yeah. I took that as them saying OTA updates with new features that are within the capability of the hardware will be included in the cost of the truck. The website says driver+ is standard, and hasn't ever said that new features will be available at an extra cost. If the website were clear like you are and said "we may announce new features, some may require an additional cost, some may not." then people wouldn't get bent out of shape over it.

I don't personally care if they charge for Level 3 driver assistance, it's reasonable, but I do see how people would feel mislead.

Side note: it doesn't appear "membership" would get the "autonomous" capabilities. it seems like that would a 10k fee. They also categories L3 under driver+ in the S1 filing still. So they would be charging $10k for additional driver+ features. That's separate from the membership that was previously announced.

Would you be surprised if they required the "membership" to access increased charging speeds above 140 miles in 20 minutes (if the hardware could support it)?

 

[Ladiver]

I think it is the very specific words that have been used by their marketing department. The link @DucRider posted is clear about what will come with the truck.

Here is an example of why some are disappointed with a subscription. The last sentence, “We’ll add more over time at no cost to you” is pretty specific.

 

[E.S.]

What I want to know is: Is this 'membership' part of the program that will give you free charging or a separate one for the self-driving feature benefits and upgrades?

 

[SeaGeo]

What I want to know is: Is this 'membership' part of the program that will give you free charging or a separate one for the self-driving feature benefits and upgrades?

Separate. They're quoting $10k for an FSD type deicer+ feature set separate from a ~$50/month membership.

 

[RWerksman]

Can we all please stop pretending that whatever Driver+ is has been cast in stone since the beginning of time? The wording on precisely what is included has been adjusted multiple times already. For instance, here are two different paged from just this year:

January - https://web.archive.org/web/2021012...e/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver
Today - https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver

I've highlighted the differences and they are mostly similar. The do seem to have removed wording in regard to Lane Centering (not on highway?) and adjusted the wording on park assist.

That one thing may be a big deal or could be nothing at all. I'm haven't gone back and looked at prior statements. I know, for instance, there was language in there regarding L3 functionality and lidar. Regardless, nothing is locked in until purchases actually take place. Even then, holding them to it likely wouldn't be worth the expense.

January:

Automatic Driving Assistance: Help with the manual driving tasks when you want it.

• Active Driving Assistance: Automatic steering, braking and acceleration on select highways.
• Adaptive Cruise Control: Set your speed and automatically accelerate or brake on highways, adjusting speed to keep an appropriate distance from vehicles in front of you.
• Lane Centering: Assisted steering to keep you centered within your lane.
• Lane Change Assist: Assisted lane changes on the highway.
• Trailer Assistance: Helps with more difficult reverse maneuvers while you have a trailer attached.

Active safety: Collision warning, alerts and preventative action.

• Forward Collision Warning: Warns you of potential collisions with people and cars ahead.
• Automatic Emergency Braking: Applies the brakes to help mitigate or prevent a collision.
• Dynamic Brake Support: Automatically supports your braking to help mitigate or prevent a collision.
• Blind Spot Warning: Detects vehicles in your blind spots and warns you if you try to move into the lane while present.
• Lane Departure Warning: Warns you if you drift too close or cross lane markers without a turn signal on.
• Lane Keeping Assistance: Helps steer you back into your lane if you unintentionally drift close to or over a lane marker without a turn signal.
• Automatic Emergency Steering: Helps steers you back into your lane if you drift too close to the edge of the road or it detects a potential collision, with or without a turn signal.
• Rear-Cross Traffic Warning: Alerts you to traffic and people approaching from the side when backing up.
• Manual Park Assist: A 360° detection system designed to help sense and alert you to objects.
• Automatic High Beams: Automatically switches the headlights from high to low beams when a vehicle is detected ahead.

Today:

Driving Assist: Help with the manual driving tasks when you want it.

• Highway Assist: Automatic steering, braking and acceleration on select highways while engaged.
• Adaptive Cruise Control: Set your speed and automatically accelerate or brake, adjusting speed to keep an appropriate distance from vehicles in front of you.
• Lane Change Assist: Assisted lane changes on the highway.

Active Safety Assist: Collision warning, alerts and preventative action.

Lane Safety

• Lane Keep Assist: Helps steer you back into your lane if you unintentionally drift close to or over a lane marker without a turn signal.
• Lane Departure Warning: Warns you if you drift too close or cross lane markers without a turn signal on.
• Blind Spot Warning: Detects vehicles in your blind spots and warns you if you indicate with your turn signal that you are going move into the occupied lane.

Light Safety

• Automatic High Beams: Automatically switches the headlights from high to low beams when a vehicle is detected ahead.

Parking and reverse

• Rear Cross-Traffic Warning: Alerts you to traffic and people approaching from the side when backing up.
• Park Assist: A 360° detection system designed to help sense and alert you to objects.
• Trailer Assist: Helps with reverse maneuvers while you have a trailer attached.

Collision Mitigation

• Forward Collision Warning: Warns you of potential collisions with people and cars ahead.
• Automatic Emergency Braking: Applies the brakes to help mitigate or prevent a collision.
• Dynamic Brake Support: Supports your braking to help mitigate or prevent a collision.

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