Rivian CEO says Apple CarPlay isn’t going to happen…

[Zoidz]

I'm not 100% clear on what the CEO means by not including CarPlay.

There's the first-generation display extension to the car's infotainment system, which we know as "CarPlay" and "Android Auto."

When Apple first introduced CarPlay in 2013, they called it "iOS in the Car." It was finally released and showed off at the Geneva Auto Show in 2014. Most major automakers had adopted it by 2016-2017. Meanwhile, Android Auto was introduced in 2015, and finally made available to the public for 2017.

These two is a general-purpose infotainment replacement that has been around for about 10 years, and here the mobile phone is merely rearranging its own user interface and modifying the user experience to suit the needs of a driver (or comply with common sense safety rules like not allowing YouTube or Zoom calls on the primary infotainment screen).

Then there's "Next Generation" CarPlay aka CarPlay 2.0, which is Apple's vision for a total reskinning of more critical components such as the dashboard and climate controls. They teased this at their worldwide developer conference in 2022, and formally presented it this year:

WWDC 2024: Meet the next generation of CarPlay architecture (Session 10111)
Say hello to the next generation of CarPlay design system (Session 10112)

Many auto makers are hesitant to give Apple this much control over the user interface because they spend a lot of time and money to design their own UI. In most cases, they're tailored for the particular design quirks of the vehicle, or the needs of their customers.

So is Rivian talking about total abandonment of support for traditional CarPlay and Android Auto, in the same way that GM and Tesla have done? Or are they only talking about a rejection of Apple's design proposals for CarPlay 2.0?

“No CarPlay” means exactly that - No CarPlay. RJ could not have made it any clearer.

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[savethemanual]

There are kits that convert older cars with screens that don't have AA/CP into having it on factory screen. I'm sure someone will figure this out and bring to market, only a matter of time. Obviously it's not going to happen from the factory

 

[George Kaplan]

its not "news"....they've been saying it for several years now....

This should be vaulted to the top of the thread.

I am among those who have depended upon CarPlay. I’ve used it in each of my last three vehicles, and outright depended upon it in the last two.

No one system is without a flaw or error. I have seen CP mature greatly over the past years into an excellent integrated hands-free system of calls/texts/music/navigation. My wife for years preferred Waze (I could never warm to the GUI), until the day it sent her the wrong way down a one-way street. Fortunately there was only one car coming at her (it was night) and she was able to turn around without further incident. But she lost all confidence in Waze that night.

Someone else reading this might think, “I love Waze!”, and that is the whole point: We tend to think of our own preferences as winners and losers, and we use the winner—until it lets us down, then it becomes a loser (as happened with my wife). The fact remains Waze is still a very good choice for millions of drivers, despite my wife’s personal experience, and I wouldn’t go on at length about it being “garbage”, when it apparently had bad on-the-street info in that single instance.

There is way too much tribalism all around us. Each of the 3rd party systems (CarPlay, Google Maps, Waze (which is also Google)) is a very good, robust navigation aid. As stated before, I used CP because of the integration with other apps which I could use while driving. I really thought I would miss CP when I bought the Rivian.

After two months: Not as much as I thought I would. The native Navi in the R1 is clearly a work in progress. But I have used in-car navigation systems back before Clinton signed the order to remove the filter and improve accuracy, so I know how much things can change purely through software updates. It is miles beyond our e-tron (a car which explains why VW entered into its deal with Rivian, the software was poor from Day 1 and then never updated in years). I know it will iterate slowly but will be more of an asset 12 months from now. The receiving of calls is more of a chore for me since the Rivian steering wheel doesn’t have the universal Man Talking button most other cars have to initiate answering. Likewise I miss having my texts read to me (wife is always messaging me when I’m out).

But the R1 is the reason I bought the R1, not because of CarPlay. And I’d make the same decision again. I am loving this car, and making the necessary adjustments that come with it.

 

[KW_88_SS]

@KW_88_SS,
I'd personally, enjoy meeting up some day in the future to share info and hope sincerely we can have future productive conversations.

We're Porsche owners, we can always hang out.

 

[Bruno]

at least give us waze. I have a 2024 ram limited, they have a great system with car play, split screen. I love my R1S but would even be better with apple car play. I have to have a phone holder next to the rivian screen. sure seems like a step backwards for such a great car.

 

[ThirteenElectrics]

So your complaint is that the stock UI is buggy and doesn't work and your recommendation it to, install a half-assed system that is significantly worse than the stock UI just have Temu Carplay? Those half-baked CarPlay kits are absolutely terrible lol.

The Carpodgo is 60 FPS and works pretty well. It's the best system I have found. What can I say--to each their own.

CarPlay has literallynothing to do with 5g or 6g. Those are variations in hardware, nothing to do with CarPlay. If you have a 5g phone, you have a 5g phone. Just because 6g will utilize the existing infrastructure, it does not mean your phone will be backwards compatible. The end.

I upgrade my phone every year. When I do, I get the latest connectivity technologies. With CarPlay, I can extend those into my car. With Rivian, I cannot upgrade connectivity unless I buy a new car. That's my point.

North American 5g saturation is not even at 70%, so I think you're going to be waiting a while for 6g. Also, Apple satellite texting(e.g. the SOS system) is not a random text service you use in the car at a whim. You have to first answer a questionnaire and literally be pointing the phone in the direction of satellites.

6G will be out in about six years. Many of us will still have their original Rivian at that point.

That's true of today's tech, but not next year's tech. SpaceX has 100 Direct to Cell satellites in space already, and when Apple supports them, you'll be able to text via satellite with an unmodified phone you don't have to point. My iPhone will support that. Rivian *might* since all it requires is a 4G LTE connection, but people don't send text messages to my Rivian, they send it to my phone number, so the integration may not be so great; I might need to tether. At the end of the day I can upgrade my CarPlay experience when I upgrade my phone, but I can't upgrade many aspects of the Rivian experience.

At the end of the day it's all about Rivain trying to charge me an extra $15 a month. They're going to withhold whatever features they can in order to try to get me to pay that. I will not be paying it.

 

[KW_88_SS]

I upgrade my phone every year. When I do, I get the latest connectivity technologies. With CarPlay, I can extend those into my car. With Rivian, I cannot upgrade connectivity unless I buy a new car. That's my point.

It doesn't matter. That's the actual point. You can have 10g, and if all the towers are still running 5g, you're not gaining an upgraded connectivity. Again, the entire US still does not have 5g. Buying 6g(which runs on 5g network anyway) will see almost 0 benefits for a long time.

6G will be out in about six years. Many of us will still have their original Rivian at that point.

And it runs on 5g network, so, it's kind of a moot point.

That's true of today's tech, but not next year's tech. SpaceX has 100 Direct to Cell satellites in space already, and when Apple supports them, you'll be able to text via satellite with an unmodified phone you don't have to point. My iPhone will support that. Rivian *might* since all it requires is a 4G LTE connection, but people don't send text messages to my Rivian, they send it to my phone number, so the integration may not be so great; I might need to tether. At the end of the day I can upgrade my CarPlay experience when I upgrade my phone, but I can't upgrade many aspects of the Rivian experience.

Literally, no. You're just assuming it's going to work how you want to push a CarPlay narrative.

What I'm telling you is this is basic physics. You are still closer to a tower than a satellite and there are significantly more towers. Your phone is not going to send a signal through a bunch of brick buildings, a cloud formation and then magically "hit" a moving target while you're also moving.

Phones use terrestrial towers with backhaul connections to connect your cell phone to the carrier’s network. Satellite “communication”, which some apps may use, uses connectivity to the internet via cellular networks. The satellites have their own connections to their ground stations, which probably have additional servers involved. The apps access those servers. You're not connecting directly to the satellite. It's marketing hype. and it's also introducing multiple hops(latency?).

At the end of the day it's all about Rivain trying to charge me an extra $15 a month. They're going to withhold whatever features they can in order to try to get me to pay that. I will not be paying it.

Every car manufacture charges for a data package. Almost like, they get charged for it from the ISP and pass it on to the consumer. Or, do you get free internet with your phone too and watch too?

CarPlay isn't coming.

 

[KW_88_SS]

at least give us waze. I

Waze is already in the process of being phased out. They were bought by Google years ago and are a shell at this point. I'm honestly shocked they haven't killed the app completely tbh.

 

[Jccoryell]

My take on CarPlay is that what really drives interest in it is not so much the features that it offers or its user interface so much as it's the fact that it most clearly embraces the concept of your phone as the center of control over your digital life.

For many (most?) users these days, their smartphone is their primary computer and primary interface to their digital life. It's where we mediate most of our communication, manage our entertainment preferences, etc. These digital interactions are now a huge part of, if not central to many people's identities, and their phone is practically an extension of themselves. CarPlay/AA fit this model very well, with the phone still clearly at the center of the interaction.

The vehicle becomes an accessory attached to the phone rather than the phone being an accessory attached to the vehicle.

When you think about it that way, the appeal to many users should be obvious. A car is a rolling computer, which should be subordinate to the primary computer which runs your life.* Why do I want to have do things like set up accounts or curate playlists when I've already done that? Why would I want to put up with inferior apps or immature features when I have a much better version in my pocket?

What also becomes obvious is why CarPlay is not appealing to Rivian. They did not set out to be Anker or iHome, another moon orbiting the Apple/Google sun. They set out to build vehicles that live at the center of their user's lives and hew closely to their self image. Aside from the loss of potential revenue, there is a potential loss of vision or drive or whatever you want to call it when you let go of the idea that your product is the most important one. That's what I hear RJ saying in these interviews, and I understand and respect it, even as I wish my truck had CarPlay. (Full disclosure: I added a CarPlay device).


* I know, here come the "I like to use my car for driving" people, of which I am one, but recognize that we are in the minority now.

Reading what you wrote tells me your opinion is of the majority. Most folks think like you. Here is the minority opinion. If what you say is true then our culture is being designed by multinational corporations. Our identities are being monitored and controlled by multinational corporations and we spend way too much time in our vehicles. Does anyone else see the problem with this? But, yes, I wish we had AA and I love my Rivian

 

[BrianB]

i said "proper" infotainment and planning features. Porsche's infotainment is not proper (aka it's not good) and their carplay integration doesn't even have any planning features, so no i'm not moving goal posts. I'll be more direct. Porsche's implementation sucks. If someone took away your Rivian infotainment and gave you Porsches, you would be banging your head on a wall. It's terrible.

Infotainment on my son’s 4 year old Hyundai Elantra is better (CarPlay), and in my R1S I trip plan with PlugShare and Waze because the Rivian nav is missing lots of chargers and the navigation is subpar. Car makers need to do better than CarPlay if they want to own the ecosystem and not offer it.

 

[White Shadow]

Studies have shown that ~30% of Americans won't consider buying a new vehicle unless it has an engine... Should they add one of those too?

I think that percentage is much higher, to be honest. But no, adding an engine doesn't really work for a company that builds EVs. It's an interesting point though----if Rivian decided to make a gas powered version of their R1S & R1T, would people buy them? Unless they were priced in a super competitive way to other ICE SUVs & trucks, probably not. The reason is that there's really nothing special that Rivian offers in the ICE world that you can't already get elsewhere. Rivian's competitive advantage exists only in the EV world.

Put a gas engine in an R1S and you basically have a Grand Cherokee without half the features.

 

[Bruno]

Great vehicle other than NO APPLE CAR PLAY. Screen is big enough at
Least give us WAZE.

 

[iforbes]

Great vehicle other than NO APPLE CAR PLAY. Screen is big enough at
Least give us WAZE.

?

 

[Gratedwasabi]

There's simply no argument that holds water against a simple approach. Let owners schedule a service appointment, sign a waiver, pay a fee, and get Android Auto/Carplay.

Done.

Then only people that specifically want it have to deal with it and Rivian is off the hook for whatever claims they make about those softwares being problematic.

The reason they don't do this is, IMO, because they know most customers would opt in for Auto/Carplay.

 

[iforbes]

There's simply no argument that holds water against a simple approach. Let owners schedule a service appointment, sign a waiver, pay a fee, and get Android Auto/Carplay.

Done.

Then only people that specifically want it have to deal with it and Rivian is off the hook for whatever claims they make about those softwares being problematic.

The reason they don't do this is, IMO, because they know most customers would opt in for Auto/Carplay.

On what earth is that simple?

Now they have to maintain three software stacks. One that uses their software, one that uses Apple and one that uses google.

That is the opposite of simple. Honestly, if you don’t like it, get a car that meets your requirements. That is a simple solution.

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