CCS appears to be better than NACS..should R2 stay CCS?

[GRC]

Came back from a roadtrip to Chicago (from Toronto) and there were a couple times I wished I had the NACS adapter...there was a Tesla station in Michigan I could've used....and while in IL, there was an outlet mall we shopped at that had Tesla charging and would've been great to top up while we shopped.

So came back and ordered an A2z adapter. However now I am planning a trip to Washington, DC and as I plan that trip out there aren't many tesla stations onroute and the CCS options are better.
High-speed charging in NY provided by EvolveNY through some kind of partnership with state of NY and then using a RAN station in PA.

So after planning this trip out, I'm kinda glad I have CCS because for this trip CCS has better options for charging than NACS..

Sounds like the future is everyone will need an adaptor of some sort...either CCS to NACS or vice versa. Is there something about NACS standard that make it better than CCS? I'm sure there is a good reason rivian chose NACs for r2...what is it?

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[Davethadog]

As machines get repaired or replaced they will inevitably converge on NACS but it’ll be messy for a long time.

 

[COdogman]

That can’t be possible. According to the cult I’ve been following, Tesla chargers are 1000% better even when there aren’t any. You should reroute to use them because otherwise it’s not possible to road trip.

 

[electruck]

NACS charging cables are physically less bulky and a bit easier to handle. Outside of that, the big win from NACS is that everyone is beginning to converge on a single standard where, eventually, anyone will be able to access any charger - much like gas stations today. And yes, until the current fleet of CCS vehicles are off the road and all charging infrastructure has converted to NACS, everyone will need an adapter to maximize the chargers that are accessible to their vehicle.

 

[ukyank]

CCS will gradually completely disappear. In the meantime you can get a NACS to CCS adapter when Rivian goes to NACS if you want, but putting a dying tech in a new car would only alienate potential customers.

 

[GRC]

CCS will gradually completely disappear. In the meantime you can get a NACS to CCS adapter when Rivian goes to NACS if you want, but putting a dying tech in a new car would only alienate potential customers.

I guess my real Q is if CCS is really dying? All RAN stations have it and so does a lot of the other big players EVGo, Flo, chargepoint etc.

 

[electruck]

I guess my real Q is if CCS is really dying? All RAN stations have it and so does a lot of the other big players EVGo, Flo, chargepoint etc.

Yes, it will 100% be phased out and the charging stations upgraded/replaced with NACS over time.

 

[emoore]

Yes, it will 100% be phased out and the charging stations upgraded/replaced with NACS over time.

Yeah in the next 30 years.

 

[RandomMcRandomFace]

Strong likelihood everyone will need an adapter but I would much rather have a NACS plug (Tesla chargers are better as a general/overall statement and I am not sure how that can be disputed) and a CCS adapter for the rare time you can’t use a NACS (Tesla or otherwise) charger.

Today rather than going to a chargepoint (there are usually 2 and half the time don’t actually have the rate of charge advertised) or EA (complete crap shoot as to what plugs are working and if the app is correct re: availability) I pulled into a 12 plug supercharger. Pulled in, parked, charged (at 210-190 kWh), left. No hassle. No stress. Tesla told me exactly how many were available. Just plugged in (no fumbling with crap screens or apps or anything). It is so much better. Elon is a tool but don’t let that cloud things here.

 

[Daspes]

Over the past 2 years, I’ve done several trips from FL to NYC, Atlanta,New Orleans and back. In all my trips I’ve had to wait for a CCS three times, and had to reroute to a different charger because it was OOC twice.

Meanwhile EVERY Tesla tesla station I passed or saw had nearly 3x the number cars waiting to charge vs the amount of available chargers.

I get that superchargers are uber reliable, and options are good. But I can easily drive to the next CCS station and be on the road again loooooooong before I could even begin charging on a NACS charger.

 

[LiamM]

Well.. I came in here expecting a completely different discussion. NACS is objectively technically better than CCS, Smaller connector, less bulky cable, I may be remembering wrong but higher charge rate cap realistically. But like others have said the real advantage is the final settling on a standard, eventually most if not all chargers in North America will be NACS tesla or otherwise, It'll be messy for a while probably not as long as we think though, and then just like Betamx, HDDVD and other losers in the format wars disappear you'll rarely ever see it. Problem is the statement in your subject is wrong it's not "CCS appears to be better than NACS." What you're saying is "CCS seems to be more convenient and plentiful for me right now" which might very well be 100% accurate. It's really 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other. You can have a vehicle with NACS and use a converter to access CCS chargers now and the instances you'll need it will decrease over time or a CCS vehicle that needs a NACS adapter that you have to use more over time. (I think) objectively the latter would be preferable

 

[RandomMcRandomFace]

Over the past 2 years, I’ve done several trips from FL to NYC, Atlanta,New Orleans and back. In all my trips I’ve had to wait for a CCS three times, and had to reroute to a different charger because it was OOC twice.

Meanwhile EVERY Tesla tesla station I passed or saw had nearly 3x the number cars waiting to charge vs the amount of available chargers.

I get that superchargers are uber reliable, and options are good. But I can easily drive to the next CCS station and be on the road again loooooooong before I could even begin charging on a NACS charger.

Owned a tesla and never waited one minute for a supercharger. Of course there are some that will be full but the great news is unlike EA where the app is absolute garbage, the Tesla app will tell you that so you can go elsewhere. AND when it is busy, Tesla aggressively charges you once you hit 80% (so none of this charging to 100% crap).

As the poster above notes, NACS is a better plug but that also comes with the benefit of the supercharger network (which is not perfect of course but in a sea of garbage it stands out).

 

[CharonPDX]

NACS charging cables are physically less bulky and a bit easier to handle. Outside of that, the big win from NACS is that everyone is beginning to converge on a single standard where, eventually, anyone will be able to access any charger - much like gas stations today. And yes, until the current fleet of CCS vehicles are off the road and all charging infrastructure has converted to NACS, everyone will need an adapter to maximize the chargers that are accessible to their vehicle.

*TESLA* charging cables are physically less bulky.

There is nothing inherent to *NACS* that guarantees it. I would bet serious money that when EA, EVgo, ChargePoint, etc, all switch to NACS, they'll just switch the connectors on the end of the cable, and the cables will remain the same.

One reason Tesla cables have been less bulky is that they're shorter, so can use thinner wiring. They're also apparently willing to use thinner cabling for higher amperage than other manufacturers use. This isn't that they're using some magic material that allows them to be thinner, it's that they're not building in as much safety overhead, relying on the active safety systems to drop amperage if a fault is detected, rather than just overengineering it.

Heck, Tesla's CCS2 cables in Europe are similarly thinner than other manufacturers' CCS2 cables at locations with shorter cables. Has nothing to do with the plug on the end.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Anecdotal experience leading to anecdotal conclusion. If CCS was truly superior, why on earth would all these OEMs and networks choose to convert and migrate to NACS? They wouldn't. Businesses tend not to make costly decisions, unless they see a good reason. And CCS isn't superior. Comparing your interaction with each cable and plug size alone, ought to be enough to tell you which is better, at least from a user-experience POV. Writing is on the wall for CCS. It's just not going to disappear overnight because no for-profit business likes to spend large amounts of $ quickly. Conversion will be slow and gradual.

 

[electruck]

*TESLA* charging cables are physically less bulky.

There is nothing inherent to *NACS* that guarantees it. I would bet serious money that when EA, EVgo, ChargePoint, etc, all switch to NACS, they'll just switch the connectors on the end of the cable, and the cables will remain the same.

One reason Tesla cables have been less bulky is that they're shorter, so can use thinner wiring. They're also apparently willing to use thinner cabling for higher amperage than other manufacturers use. This isn't that they're using some magic material that allows them to be thinner, it's that they're not building in as much safety overhead, relying on the active safety systems to drop amperage if a fault is detected, rather than just overengineering it.

Heck, Tesla's CCS2 cables in Europe are similarly thinner than other manufacturers' CCS2 cables at locations with shorter cables. Has nothing to do with the plug on the end.

Fair point. However, the connector isn't likely to be "field serviceable". For chargers getting converted, the entire cable will be replaced (except in case where the entire unit is due for an upgrade).

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