KIA EV9 vs. Rivian R1S: Comprehensive Overview, Key Questions, Buy or Lease Scenarios?

[Electron]

Hello R1S owners,

I've recently joined the community, and it's been refreshing reading through the threads so far. Just thought I'd make my first post on two really great 3-Row EV SUVs in the EV space today for those shopping.

Purpose of This Thread:

• To consolidate as much information as possible regarding common questions.
• Hopefully, this will help others seeking this information. I've found bits and pieces scattered, which took me hours to find.

Our Situation:

• Wife and I are looking to get a proper family EV
• Growing family, need more room. Storage space is priority.
• Range is not an issue. 270 miles is plenty for us.
• We have narrowed it down to two options: a new KIA EV9 GT-Line or a used Rivian R1S QM.
• We are long-time EV owners and have an EV-only household.

KIA EV9:

• Pros:
  • Excellent EV SUV
  • Well-built and very comfortable
  • Best implementation of using recycled materials in the interior = High-quality
  • Smooth driving with enough power for most people
  • Top safety pick
  • Great visibility with minimal blind spots
  • One of the best 360 Cams in the industry
  • Great interior space
  • Unique design and practical UI
  • Physical buttons for common controls
  • Heated/ventilated front & (second-row seats )
  • Smooth & Quiet ride
  • Superb Suspension Tuning
  • Thoughtful interior layout and design
  • Powered retractable roof shade
  • Rear hydraulic leveling
  • Hidden Rear Wiper
  • Peasant shades in the second row
  • 15A (1800W) outlets, V2L adapter for additional power outlet
  • HEAT PUMP! + Ability to manually trigger pre-conditioning
  • Feels airy and roomy overall
  • Excellent 12-inch HUD
  • One of the best driver assistant systems in the industry
  • 800v Architecture
  • Rear view mirror cam
  • Will be built at the GA plant come Q4 of this year and will ship with a NACS port.
  • EMOTION Factor: 8.5 out of 10. (For context, a Tesla for us is maybe a 6 out of 10. Tesla's aren't special anymore, but a notch above a 5-Avg for it being an EV.)
• Cons:
  • Lacks a proper frunk, what were you thinking guys?
  • Lacks a rear deep well, fire the person who signed off on this genius idea
  • Feels a little boaty

= EV9 Highlights

For the price range, KIA hit a home run with their first EV SUV, making it an excellent choice for most families. However, they missed big time in the areas of the frunk and rear deep well. Unfortunately, this is a make-or-break feature for us as we really need the storage space.

KIA EV9 Trims:

Light RWD | $54,900* | 230 miles | 76.1 kWh Battery

Light Long Range RWD | $59,200* | 304 miles | 99.8 kWh Battery

Wind AWD | $63,900* | 280 miles | 99.89 kWh Battery

Land AWD | $69,900* | 280 miles | 99.89 kWh Battery

GT-Line AWD | $73,900* | 270 miles | 99.89 kWh Battery

* These are MSRP and the EV9 can be obtained for under MSRP. $7500 with a lease; however, there are some dealers that are giving $7500 off of even a purchase. Add in your State incentive it if applies.

(Ex. The GT-Line for right at or under $60K is very common.)

Rivian R1S:

• Pros:
  • Best in its class
  • Just pure class
  • Well-built with (a ton of storage space )
  • Top safety pick
  • Familiar cockpit for those coming from a Tesla
  • Awesome seats very premium and well designed
  • Air suspension
  • Great range with optional battery pack upgrades (dual motor configurations)
  • Huge powered frunk with a drain plug
  • Large rear deep well storage space
  • Quiet ride with great driving dynamics
  • Extremely versatile
  • Neat features like the built in air compressor, flash light and BT Speaker
  • Rear split opening with a tail gate
  • Very good fit and finish
  • Able to charge on Tesla Super Chargers w/ the Adapter at great speeds.
  • Simply the best EV SUV in its price range
  • EMOTION Factor: 10 out of 10. It's special and has that strong X factor.
• Cons:
  • ~$100K vehicle with no second-row peasant shades?
  • Controversial ride qualty
  • Lacks a powered retractable roof shade
  • No rear view mirror cam
  • Uncomfortable passenger seat position with a rear facing car seat behind it
  • Lackluster audio system, unbalanced sound stage, lacks bass and more
  • No pull strap to bring back up the third-row seats?
  • Outlets only rated for 1500W?
  • Wonky rain sensing and wipers
  • No heat pump? Really? How? Why? Who thought this was a good idea for an off road adventure focused machine that caters to the REI crowd? - Update: Thanks @Porfiry for the link to this thread, confirming the Heat Pump for the 2025 Refresh.

= R1S Highlights.

Gen 1 R1S Dual Motor:

w/ Standard Pack | $74,900 | 270 miles | 106 kWh

w/ Standard+ Pack | $78,000 | 315 miles | 121 kWh

w/ Large Pack | $84,000 | 352 miles | 131 kWh

w/ Max Pack | $94,000 | 400 miles | 141 kWh

R1S Performance Dual Motor Add $5000. Ranges are the same.

R1S Quad Motor:
Only comes with the Large Pack | $92,000 | 321 miles | 131 kWh

*Link to the NEW Gen 2 R1S - Line Up.*

Conclusion:
Two very different EV SUVs, yet with a lot in common. A fully loaded EV9 GT-Line available for thousands less than the starting price of the base R1S. If it wasn't for the lack of a proper frunk and deep well on the KIA EV9, the choice would have been easy. Therefore, we are set on the R1S and very excited to join the party. I hope that any further discussions here provides value to those who may be cross shopping the two EV SUVs.

They both have amazing lease deals and it's not uncommon to see the EV9 GT-Line go for mid 50K fully loaded. It's a bargain if you don't need additional space.

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[Electron]

The Big Questions:

1. What are the actual differences between the model years 2022, 2023, and 2024?

• From what I've gathered:
  • Audio System: Transitioned from the [Meridian Elevation] sound system to the in-house Rivian [Elevation] system in early 2023.
  • Suspension Tuning: Some adjustments were made from 2023 to 2024.
  • Screen Performance: 2023 and 2024 screens are snappier than the 2022 models.
  • 12-Volt Outlets: The 2024 model is missing two 12-volt cigarette outlets.

2. Quad Motor (Third Party sourced from Bosch) or Dual Motor (in-house) with a Max Pack?

• Dual Motor with the Max Pack for more range.
• Range is preferred for the main family hauler, but not a deal breaker.
• Update: The more we thought about it, the Max pack isn't worth the price tag for the little that you're getting. Unless you're towing etc...sure, but for our routes with plenty of chargers, having the Max pack would make zero difference in our charging stops, routine and usage habits. In fact, the Max pack may cost some extra minutes charging due to the larger kWh real estate.

3. IIHS states "Award applies only to vehicles built after January 2023" while giving the 2023 R1S tested: TOP SAFETY PICK+.

• What was changed going from 2022 to 2023? - Thanks @Tango45 "the difference between the 2022 and 2023 IIHS ratings is that they changed the driver's foot box slightly as there was "a chance of ankle injury" in certain crash scenarios with the 2022 model year... IIRC. Not enough to drive you one way or another on its own, in my book."

4. Will the new R1S Refresh have a Heat Pump? - Update: Thanks @Porfiry for the link to this thread, confirming the Heat Pump for the 2025 Refresh.

 

[Electron]

An overview: (Rhetorical, thinking out loud and just laying it all out for those who may be curious.)

R1S Options: (Assuming a QM at ~$95K for NEW and ~$75K for USED.)

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Option 1: Lease

The Lease deals are great, but it's the unknown in this fast moving EV world that has us a bit cautious. What will the Rivians really be worth in the used market a few years from now with the fast emerging tech? A question that always floats around in the back of my mind.

Pros:

• First owner
• Lower monthly obligation. Ex. $750-$800, but add on another ~$150-$200 to that. From what I've seen folks are sitting at just above $1000+ a month
• $7500 Fed Tax Incentive, reducing interest for the first 2-3 years or even a wash
• Option to turn in the keys or buy out at the residual factor

Cons:

• Money put down, never will see again, is lost in a bad accident
• Stuck for the lease term unless early buyout is requested
• Low chance of positive equity at the end of the lease
• Residual Factor. 58% ($55,100) and 63% ($59,850) from what I've gathered from R1S Leasers.
• Fast moving EV tech, will Rivian values hold?

Ex. $95K - $7500 Fed - $9000* WA State new lease incentive in Aug. = $78,500

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Option 2: Buy New from Inventory

Pros:

• First owner
• Potentially better deals in a wonky economy and car market in 2024
• Rivian may try to clear existing inventory, strong incentives, before the refresh? (Update 05/23/24: This is clearly happening as we just got a price cut. As predicted. Not surprised.)

Cons:

• Depreciation hit continues to fall, left holding the bag
• May not get the exact config desired

Ex. $95K - $5000* State Incentive = $90,000

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Option 3: Wait and Buy the Refresh

Pros:

• First owner
• Potential heat pump, likely? (Very conflicting info at the moment)
• New color options

Cons:

• More cost-cutting measures
• Potential loss of features like the Bluetooth speaker and front toe hooks

Ex. $95K - $5000* State Incentive = $90,000

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Option 4: Buy Used

Pros:

• Already took the depreciation hit
• Nearly the same between model years
• More options as current owners sell for the refresh?

Cons:

• Potential undisclosed issues
• Hidden skeletons in the closest

Ex. $75K - $2500* State Incentive = $72,500

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

*State incentives are not fully confirmed and may not apply.

The delta between buying used and new is around ~$17,500 with state incentives, or ~$20,000 without them.

Assuming the residual factor is 58% ($55,100) or 63% ($59,850), based on what I've seen shared from those who went with the current lease deals, what are your thoughts on how well the R1S value will hold at the end of let's say the 3 years?

We're leaning to snipe maybe a used R1S QM or if lucky a Dual Motor w/ the Max Pack.

Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

The Kia lacks the air suspension and kinetic ride control that Rivian has for one. The Rivian also has more towing capability and access to the Tesla supercharger network.

The large center screen in the Rivian will be capable of playing video pretty soon with Google cast.

I like the styling of the Rivian better too.

Lastly let's talk about the battery and electric drive warranty. The Rivian has 8 years 150,000 mile on dual motor and 8 years 175,000 miles on quad motor. Also the new car (aka bumper to bumper) warranty is better on the Rivian at 5/50 or 6/60 respectively.

I owned a Kia/Hyundai product once and I didn't like the quality of the interior. The materials seemed to wear quicker than competitors.

 

[Electron]

R1S Refresh:

How likely will it get a heat pump?

The Kia lacks the air suspension and kinetic ride control that Rivian has for one. The Rivian also has more towing capability and access to the Tesla supercharger network.

The large center screen in the Rivian will be capable of playing video pretty soon with Google cast.

I like the styling of the Rivian better too.

Lastly let's talk about the battery and electric drive warranty. The Rivian has 8 years 150,000 mile on dual motor and 8 years 175,000 miles on quad motor. Also the new car (aka bumper to bumper) warranty is better on the Rivian at 5/50 or 6/60 respectively.

I owned a Kia/Hyundai product once and I didn't like the quality of the interior. The materials seemed to wear quicker than competitors.

Thanks for your input!

We're big fans of the air suspension on the R1S, which is a highlight in our books. Given the price difference between the two, it'd be unrealistic to expect an air suspension on the EV9. Despite it not having it, the EV9 drove extremely smooth and handled rough roads pretty well.

I agree, the big center screen is a huge plus. We're so used to Tesla's display and UI that it'll feel like a downgrade regardless jumping into any other UI/display in any car. Tesla is years ahead in the UI, but with the recent google cast announcement, that really helps a ton to lessen the gap.

As for the warranty with KIA EV9 it's 10 years / 100K miles in comparison, which includes the battery. I think for many, including us we won't ever come near maxing any of the warranty periods as we're in and out of cars every 2-5 years max.

We've also owned both KIA and Hyundai products and have had positive experiences with them. Our KIA Sedona had zero issues, nothing broke and ran like a champ. On the contrary, our new Honda odyssey had many issues and spent a lot of time in the service center. Electrical issues with recalls, transmission issues, engine knocking, sliding door malfunctions, rear deep well water leak etc.

The Genesis models that I've owned have been fantastic as well, especially when it comes to materials.

 

[ThisIsMyHandle]

The EV9 is likely built on the 800V EGMP platform, while Rivian is 400v - so you'd get faster charge times in the EV9 at the right chargers...

 

[narmstrong79]

R1S Refresh:

How likely will it get a heat pump?

The refresh is minor changes and factory improvements, it wont have a heat pump.

The EV price wise maxes out where the R1S starts. The Rivian is more positioned in the luxury category, higher (not the highest) quality materials, air suspension etc.. The EV9 is the perfect 3 row EV and doesn't look cheap in the mid and higher trims. But its still like comparing a top trim FORD explore to a Landrover or something.

You do pay a little more for the assumed premium/luxury-ness of the premium placed product.

If getting to point A to point B is your main goal, and you want an EV and you need 3 rows. Get the EV9

The EV9 is more efficient, it gets similar range with a much smaller battery. The rivian is a bit of a "gas guzzler" in comparison.

Warranty:

 

[narmstrong79]

The EV9 is likely built on the 800V EGMP platform, while Rivian is 400v - so you'd get faster charge times in the EV9 at the right chargers...

"In theory" If you can find a working EA station that cab delivery the higher rate. But you (Hyundai/Kia) also don't have access to the tesla network (yet).

Charging rate in most cases shouldn't matter, unless its stupid slow like the BZ4X/ Chevy bolt. Most people (should) only ever need DCFC a few times per year at best. As long as you can charge at home or work, public charging isn't that important IMHO

 

[ThisIsMyHandle]

"In theory" If you can find a working EA station that cab delivery the higher rate. But you (Hyundai/Kia) also don't have access to the tesla network (yet).

Actually I can charge my Kia EV6 on Tesla chargers. I use the Tesla app, it doesn't do pass through like Rivian, but it works fine. Just because Ford and Rivian have 'deals' doesn't mean other CCS vehicles can't use Superchargers, all you need is an adapter (I have A2Z).

The EV6 is very hard to compare time alone, because the battery is also half the size of the Rivian, but Rivian caps at 215Kw - I get much higher than that with the 800v EV6.

 

[narmstrong79]

Actually I can charge my Kia EV6 on Tesla chargers. I use the Tesla app, it doesn't do pass through like Rivian, but it works fine. Just because Ford and Rivian have 'deals' doesn't mean other CCS vehicles can't use Superchargers, all you need is an adapter (I have A2Z).

The EV6 is very hard to compare time alone, because the battery is also half the size of the Rivian, but Rivian caps at 215Kw - I get much higher than that with the 800v EV6.

I forgot that the Kia could charge at tesla, not all CCS can, there's a software component that is needed for the communication to work with the station.

 

[Rividiculous]

I think OP has thought through the pros and cons extremely well. I think both are great options and have nothing bad to say about the EV9. (Okay, one bad thing: I think they are trying too hard with the squared off wheel designs.)

That said, the R1S definitely has my heart. I don’t really need its incredible off road abilities or its speed. I just like it. Maybe it’s the styling. Maybe it’s the brand. Maybe it’s the US manufacturer aspect. Maybe it’s all those things.

I also think there’s a high chance they will add a heat pump with the refresh but we will see. (Maybe. Waiting for the refresh is a bit like waiting for Godot at the point.)

 

[Tango45]

I have the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and the R1S launch edition quad-motor. I mention the Hyundai because of the linkages between Hyundai & Kia. Our Hyundai came about a year before the R1S and it really blew us away, but then Rivian ruined everything. I've not been in the EV9, but it does seem like the bee's knees and looks good in person (except the black, IMO, but - opinions).

My advice/$.02/hot air would be to deprioritize/deemphasize a couple things:
- 800V architecture: I've found that most chargers out there, for various reasons, make this less impactful than you'd expect. It's either the difference of a few minutes or frustration when that Chevy Bolt is sitting on the 350KWh (or KW? I can never get that straight) charger. I've never sat at a charger in the R1S and said "Gee, if I was in the Hyundai, I'd already be on my way". More often, I say "well, I'm at my target state of charge... how long does it take these kids to poop?!"
- The rear-facing child seat: if you make smart decisions, this is a temporary factor and the speed with which you go through it will surprise you, in hindsight.
- The R1S's (at least QM) speed: blasphemy, I know, but you will love the EV9's speed and capability. If the difference in price is substantial, I'd recommend the DM over the QM unless you have a heavy and aggressive TRX/Raptor/Tesla presence in your local area and expect to have to protect your honor on a regular basis.
- The sunroof not being blocked. I'm in Northern Virginia and have had the R1S for a year and we've not noticed undue heating in the cabin (and yes, it can get real hot here - not arizona hot, but that's just nuts). Also, the app being responsive allows us to reliably cool the cabin before we get in. We have noticed the Hyundai get hot AF and we look at the app and see our message to start cooling didn't make it through to the car.

And to emphasize a couple things:
- The Rivian frunk: I use this daily. Almost every drive. Groceries, sports equipment, luggage, quick-access items, secure storage, takeout food, roadkill... Not just things I don't want stinking up the main cabin, but dirty items or items that might shift around the back if they were in there. I've been surprised that it's pretty much the #1 feature I use.
- The Rivian app: some have issues with phone-as-a-key, but, compared to the hyundai, the overall UI (key fob, phone, vehicle) are much, much, much better, more reliable, and more responsive on the Rivian. The Rivian is just get in and go; using menu items from the Hyundai app means I have to wait for the internet squirrels to bring the packets to Korea and back; Rivian just takes a couple seconds. I now resent having to grab a key fob and push a button to start the Hyundai. More importantly, we find that we get out of the Hyundai and start to walk away and it yells at us because we didn't turn it off.
- Hyundai (and I don't know if the same holds true for Kia) runs a nanny state: my Hyundai slams on the brakes and locks me out for like, 20 seconds, in the middle of the road if it disapproves of my driving. Usually this happens when I back into a parking spot, but sometimes under other conditions. It also just has a more restrictive atmosphere in terms of what you can do (a canary in the coal mine is not letting me type in destinations while in drive). It will beep at you for your insolence in merely existing. Perhaps Kia is cooler in this regard, but I warn because I care.
- Dealership vs Service Center: There's a lot on here about service centers and I would advise you to look up what people are saying about your "local" SC. The good ones will make you feel like valued family and will be knowledgeable about the vehicle in ways a dealer never will. Also, take a look at your local Kia dealer(s). They will do your maintenance and repair work. I've been disappointed in my dealers either 1) not knowing what they're doing with the EV, 2) taking 2 hours to rotate tires, and/or 3) desperately trying to sell me rotary in-line girders or whatever to fund their survival. Also... no nice way to say this, they are still structured (physically and mentally) on selling to a different price bracket or to a used market. /elitism
- Rivian's third row access: we don't use it often, but when we do, I miss my old 2020 Hyundai Palisade with the captain's chairs. It's fine for my family of four and the occasional use, but, depending on the rate of your proliferation, that may become a huge factor... like, if I had three kids, that could... maybe... almost... kinda... be a deal-breaker/maker.

I think the Kia can do most of what the R1S QM can do, but most of what it can't is outside of most peoples' use cases. You're in PNW, so maybe camping or off-roading are in your use case, which would skew you to the Rivian, but otherwise, I think the EV9 is a solid choice.

Oh, also, the difference between the 2022 and 2023 IIHS ratings is that they changed the driver's foot box slightly as there was "a chance of ankle injury" in certain crash scenarios with the 2022 model year... IIRC. Not enough to drive you one way or another on its own, in my book.

Good luck, either way!

 

[White Shadow]

I think it's just a matter of time before the EV9 exceeds the sales numbers of the R1S. That's because it has so many advantages (including price) for the average family. The R1S should remain the enthusiast's choice though, but that's a more specific use case. The R1S will still sell well though because of the lifestyle image is represents as well as that "extra" stuff you get in the capabilities of the vehicle such as quad motors, air suspension, etc...

 

[Jiji]

Why spec a max pack against a Kia with with 270 miles of range? I would build a Rivian with a Standard battery and you have similar ranges to compare.

I would compare lease deals, Kia and dealers throwing a lot of money at the EV9 just 6 months after release so good deals can be had. But Rivian has nice lease deals with much lower depreciation when I last looked.

Also the EV9 has ventilated seats (front/rear), not cooled seats, as does the Rivian (front).

My take, EV9 is ok if a bit quirky but as a family hauler the captain chairs are a huge plus. The On button position (and existence) would drive me crazy, no walk away lock and it can’t remember the 1PD setting. Certainly less $$$ but they are very different vehicles.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Actually I can charge my Kia EV6 on Tesla chargers. I use the Tesla app, it doesn't do pass through like Rivian, but it works fine. Just because Ford and Rivian have 'deals' doesn't mean other CCS vehicles can't use Superchargers, all you need is an adapter (I have A2Z).

The EV6 is very hard to compare time alone, because the battery is also half the size of the Rivian, but Rivian caps at 215Kw - I get much higher than that with the 800v EV6.

Interesting. I thought it had to be enabled on the back end for Tesla so your initiating the charge via the Tesla app and using the A2Z NACS to CCS1 adapter?

I agree they are two different vehicles. If I'm shopping in the 70-80 range though I'm choosing the Rivian over EV9.

At the low end the EV9 is a good value IMO. It's the only three row mid SUV you can get in for 60k.

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