“New” Quad Motor R1T pricing is crazy and not sustainable (even if Cybertruck priced higher than original reveal price estimate)

[Redline]

Pricing is not an issue. Don’t you remember on some of the early earnings calls, the analysts were asking why Rivians were so cheap compared to the reviews they were getting. I specifically remember one asking why Rivian wasn’t priced along side a Range Rover.

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[moosetags]

In what way is it almost useless? It doesn't scratch, dent or rust, has a huge payload & is very economical to operate. The box is just as long or longer than most 1/2T out there & has secure storage. What is impractical about it?
It appears more practical than the R1T as a work truck. Waiting to see range on both Max & CT

Tesla's Cyber Truck is a rather bizarre looking creature, but could serve as a usable pick-up truck. It's brushed stainless steel finish is not a good choice as it will require significant maintenance. We owned a 1981 DeLorean for thirty-one years. Maintaining the stainless steel was very labor intensive. The surface regularly developed rust spots that required cleaning with an industrial grade Scotch-Brite pad on a rigid pad holder. This was a very tedious job that required significant pressure following the grain of the stainless. Also small scratches or dents are unrepairable. There is no touch-up paint for a stainless car body.

I'm afraid that the Cyber Trucks body finish will turn out to be a very poor choice for Tesla.

Brian

 

[Count Orlok]

In what way is it almost useless? It doesn't scratch, dent or rust, has a huge payload & is very economical to operate. The box is just as long or longer than most 1/2T out there & has secure storage. What is impractical about it?
It appears more practical than the R1T as a work truck. Waiting to see range on both Max & CT

what are the dimensions of the CT box?

can you define "huge payload" because I can't seem to find any CT numbers on this.

what size bobcat is needed to load over the side wall of the box?

it can't be dented? is this a challenge?

 

[Dukecj]

I think many of the comments here are underestimating the size and buying power of a sizable part of the 20-35 year old demographic that is looking for something different and unique. The fact that it has challenged utility as a truck is not important, just as many/most R1 will never see the beach, forest, trails, or rocks. I think it will sell well initially, but the used market will develop more quickly than normal as the novelty wears off, and the size and lack of comfort/features gets old.

That demographic doesn't have buying power. The majority of EV owners are in their 50s with an average income of $130,000 per year. They may want it, but they won't be able to afford it.

 

[Ecupip]

In what way is it almost useless? It doesn't scratch, dent or rust,

won’t scratch or dent? That’s hilarious.

 

[SDH]

It's an expensive discretionary item where you're reliant on support from the manufacture.

If the manufacture isn't competitive then they won't be around much longer.

If they're not around you might find yourself with a very heavy brick.

I also think a significant number of owners also own the stock so there is that aspect of it as well.

The fact that a significant number of owners also own stock makes them "emotionally" invested too. The number of folks on here bricking themselves as they watched the shares drop. Rivian are NOT going to go bust and disappear off the face of the earth leaving owners with a useless lump of metal.

 

[Whataboykie!]

Yeah RJ screwed up when he didn't increase the price of the R1T every year to adjust for inflation. I also have a $75K truck and I must say it has been fabulous. $90K is no longer a lot of money for what you get with the Rivian.
Take a trip to any BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Range Rover dealer and you'll see many cars and trucks well over $100K. Let alone some of the F150 Lightnings.
Rivian may not have quite the lux that these cars have, but in my mind it's a better vehicle than any of them.
Rivian will also smoke all of them except for maybe the $130-$140K M3,4 and 5's that are out there.

 

[Bee]

I don't think the cyber truck is as fungible as you do. For many, it's as simple as thinking it's just ugly af. You couldn't pay me money to drive it.

You're missing the point that while 150k units is "small" to Tesla, it's massive for pretty much anyone else. For Rivian, it's more than their entirely yearly output.

Something can be "low volume" and when it's Tesla, it could be disruptive.

As I said, I don't think they'll knock Rivian off, but the effort will wound Rivian, so they'll do it.

 

[Hillbilly]

You're missing the point that while 150k units is "small" to Tesla, it's massive for pretty much anyone else. For Rivian, it's more than their entirely yearly output.

Something can be "low volume" and when it's Tesla, it could be disruptive.

As I said, I don't think they'll knock Rivian off, but the effort will wound Rivian, so they'll do it.

You're relying on a lot of assumptions to support a hypothesis.

 

[ElGuapo]

The foundation of the arguments here really seems to be folks getting emotional about Tesla sniffing out Rivian. I don’t think that will happen - even if CT is a huge success.

Tesla also isn’t dumb. They say what Rivian had and now CT will have a quad motor - so Tesla will try to compete. They know it needs to be able to tow, have air suspension, etc.

Long story short - I think the R1S is the more unique offering and ultimately, it’s all about the R2. Just like the 3 and the Y.

Whether CT flops or not, if the R2 isn’t amazing, it will be an issue for Rivian. But they’ve made enough progress they’re not disappearing. Worst case would be they get bought.

 

[LevelHeaded]

It’s not a zero-sum game. The pie is big enough for R1, CT, Lightning, Silverado EV, REV, Hummer and more, even IF they were identically-sized, priced, and equipped. That they aren’t makes the potential niche for each even larger, not smaller.

Ignore EVs for a moment. Everyone here accepts that Ridgeline, F150, Ranger, Maverick, Silverado, Colorado, Sierra, Canyon, Tundra, Tacoma, RAM, Santa Cruz are for sale at the same time, and people are buying all of them… right? Not only that, but the buying public is thirsty for EVEN MORE options. Denali, Trail Boss, Platinum, Tremor, Raptor, Hybrid, Bison, on and on and on.

I don’t get why the conversation around EV trucks always degenerates into “either CT succeeds and all other options die or CT fails and choice remains in the market”

It’s absolute nonsense.

 

[SDH]

It’s not a zero-sum game. The pie is big enough for R1, CT, Lightning, Silverado EV, REV, Hummer and more, even IF they were identically-sized, priced, and equipped. That they aren’t makes the potential niche for each even larger, not smaller.

Ignore EVs for a moment. Everyone here accepts that Ridgeline, F150, Ranger, Maverick, Silverado, Colorado, Sierra, Canyon, Tundra, Tacoma, RAM, Santa Cruz are for sale at the same time, and people are buying all of them… right? Not only that, but the buying public is thirsty for EVEN MORE options. Denali, Trail Boss, Platinum, Tremor, Raptor, Hybrid, Bison, on and on and on.

I don’t get why the conversation around EV trucks always degenerates into “either CT succeeds and all other options die or CT fails and choice remains in the market”

It’s absolute nonsense.

Agree 100%. Too many folks here worrying that if the CT (or insert any EV truck) is keenly priced then Rivian are dead. Total BS.

 

[Epicloop]

You seem to have a lot of confidence that the claims are true for a product that is *years* off from when it was claimed to be available.

I am confident that the CT will come out & satisfy many customers even if it does not meet all their claims. I have a reservation on both R1T max & CT in spite of the CT disappointing styling. I have been waiting 56months for the R1T quad max that is now nowhere near on schedule or close to what I ordered at this point so no real difference there. Quite satisfied with the interim R1S however.

The R1T is not a work truck, it's a lifestyle vehicle like the jeep Gladiator but its more useful than the Cybertruck. The Cybertruck is also less useful than the Hummer EV as work truck. The biggest drawback is the useless truck bed. While it is long, you will not be able to access any of the cargo from the side of the bed which will force you to climb into the bed or drop the tailgate every time you need to put something in it or take something out.

I call it the "White Collar Warrior Truck" and people that own them will be getting laughed at in a few years just like what happened with the ICE Hummer trucks. Plus, like all EV trucks it will be useless for towing anything serious.

I will be using the R1T as a all purpose vehicle including work. I have not been in the habit of loading things in from the side as it causes scratches & I find the sides too high to be really practical to load/unload items. Many say the CT truck bed is useless however that is not true, impractical for some but certainly not useless.
I do not know what you classify as towing anything serious but I have found my R1S to work quite well towing as I have used it to tow a dump trailers (7K) over mtn passes and a mini excavator(max load) from Home Depot. I much prefer towing with the R1S vs outgoing 5.7 Tundra.

what are the dimensions of the CT box?

can you define "huge payload" because I can't seem to find any CT numbers on this.

what size bobcat is needed to load over the side wall of the box?

it can't be dented? is this a challenge?

According to claims/media:
Large enough to get a quad in or plywood with gate down.
They claimed 3500lbs
Since a skid steer can load into dump truck I am sure a truck is no problem
Well based on the video's it appears much more dent resistant than the other truck

 

[Zorg]

It’s not a zero-sum game. The pie is big enough for R1, CT, Lightning, Silverado EV, REV, Hummer and more, even IF they were identically-sized, priced, and equipped. That they aren’t makes the potential niche for each even larger, not smaller.

Ignore EVs for a moment. Everyone here accepts that Ridgeline, F150, Ranger, Maverick, Silverado, Colorado, Sierra, Canyon, Tundra, Tacoma, RAM, Santa Cruz are for sale at the same time, and people are buying all of them… right? Not only that, but the buying public is thirsty for EVEN MORE options. Denali, Trail Boss, Platinum, Tremor, Raptor, Hybrid, Bison, on and on and on.

I don’t get why the conversation around EV trucks always degenerates into “either CT succeeds and all other options die or CT fails and choice remains in the market”

It’s absolute nonsense.

Finally a sane post in this thread. There is room for everyone and I hope they all do well. There is enough delineation between offerings to offer something for everyone. So long as more EV and less ICE are sold, we all win.

 

[OldGoat]

As noted earlier, the truck market is not some monolithic demographic/use case category. The design choices for the CT make it a unappealing as a work truck. For example how do you easily mount and access a tool chest from the side? Similarly, the short bed makes the R1T unappealing to a lot of trades. I suspect the EV work truck market will be dominated, as the ICE work truck today is, by Ford and GM (Ram, Toyota offerings playing there, to a lesser extent, at some point). I just don't see either Rivian or Tesla making a big dent in or focusing on the work truck market (at least not with the current offerings).

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