Interesting observation on Tesla Supercharger installation vs. the others (EA, CP, EVGo, etc.)

[hilld]

Saw this notice on our city website today (Ridgefield, WA - just north of Vancouver, WA), a city of less than 10k people. - the sentence below came from here: https://ridgefieldwa.us/government/city-departments/public-works/public-works-map/

Ridgefield Park & Ride – On Monday, February 13, construction will begin on twelve (12) Tesla supercharging stalls, along with four (4) Universal J1772 stalls for other electric vehicles to utilize. The project in expected to be completed around March 31, 2023.


That really baffles me is that Tesla goes all out with a new site, while the others manage to install 2, 3, 4 perhaps 6 chargers in a new rollout.

I am hoping that perhaps one or two of the stalls with have the magic dock connector, but it is too early to tell. I might have to drive by later today and check out the location.

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[SANZC02]

Saw this notice on our city website today (Ridgefield, WA - just north of Vancouver, WA), a city of less than 10k people. - the sentence below came from here: https://ridgefieldwa.us/government/city-departments/public-works/public-works-map/

Ridgefield Park & Ride – On Monday, February 13, construction will begin on twelve (12) Tesla supercharging stalls, along with four (4) Universal J1772 stalls for other electric vehicles to utilize. The project in expected to be completed around March 31, 2023.


That really baffles me is that Tesla goes all out with a new site, while the others manage to install 2, 3, 4 perhaps 6 chargers in a new rollout.

I am hoping that perhaps one or two of the stalls with have the magic dock connector, but it is too early to tell. I might have to drive by later today and check out the location.

I agree, it is strange it says J1772 and not CCS….

 

[jjswan33]

I think the difference is 'others' don't feel obligated to be fully responsible for CCS charging while Tesla has the sole responsibility in installing Tesla fast charging.

 

[SANZC02]

I think the difference is 'others' don't feel obligated to be fully responsible for CCS charging while Tesla has the sole responsibility in installing Tesla fast charging.

The strange part is it says J1772, that is level 2, the CCS is the fast charger connector.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I agree, it is strange it says J1772 and not CCS….

Level 2 charging makes sense for park-and-rides.

 

[jjswan33]

The strange part is it says J1772, that is level 2, the CCS is the fast charger connector.

I'm just assuming that part is accurate. They are installing 12 SC and some L2 stalls.

What I was commenting on is OPs question to why Tesla installs 12 connectors while CCS installs are 1-6 connectors at most.

 

[hilld]

Since Tesla just started rolling out MD's, I am hoping they will include them in all new installations going forward, but time will tell.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I think the difference is 'others' don't feel obligated to be fully responsible for CCS charging while Tesla has the sole responsibility in installing Tesla fast charging.

I'd rather see charging stations get to the point where it's like gas, where you just drive until you're under 10% charge left and pull off at the next convenient exit. Putting 12 stalls in at a single site doesn't really accomplish this right now.

Planning to be able to expand capacity to that in the future is good, but realistically not totally necessary. Especially if cars are able to accurately show the status of the stations in your navigation system. Literally never a thing that has been in any ICE vehicle.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

I'd rather see charging stations get to the point where it's like gas, where you just drive until you're under 10% charge left and pull off at the next convenient exit. Putting 12 stalls in at a single site doesn't really accomplish this right now.

Eh, even small gas stations have 4-8 pumps. Larger stations have dozens. And refueling gas vehicles takes ~5 minutes so the turnover is quick.

Even 350kW DCFC pedestals take an order of magnitude longer to charge an EV, so you need more pedestals to support the same number of vehicles.

 

[hilld]

I'd rather see charging stations get to the point where it's like gas, where you just drive until you're under 10% charge left and pull off at the next convenient exit. Putting 12 stalls in at a single site doesn't really accomplish this right now.

Planning to be able to expand capacity to that in the future is good, but realistically not totally necessary. Especially if cars are able to accurately show the status of the stations in your navigation system. Literally never a thing that has been in any ICE vehicle.

There are economies of scale involved here. The incremental cost for chargers 5-12 is much lower than 1-4 as you have to pay for a location, build it out, pay for power to be brought in, etc. Even the infrastructure bill specifies that the distances should not be more than 50 miles along major routes and less than 1 mile off a major route (highway/freeway).

 

[FooF]

Also keep in mind a lot of people only use fast charging for road trips and charge at home for day to day use. You would probably see fewer gas pumps if people could gas up at home.

 

[Autolycus]

There are economies of scale involved here. The incremental cost for chargers 5-12 is much lower than 1-4 as you have to pay for a location, build it out, pay for power to be brought in, etc. Even the infrastructure bill specifies that the distances should not be more than 50 miles along major routes and less than 1 mile off a major route (highway/freeway).

Demand charges for peak electrical service are extremely expensive, so there's actually a pretty substantial loss of economy at scale. Here's a good explanation: https://betterenergy.org/blog/demand-charges-and-dcfc/

 

[hilld]

Demand charges for peak electrical service are extremely expensive, so there's actually a pretty substantial loss of economy at scale. Here's a good explanation: https://betterenergy.org/blog/demand-charges-and-dcfc/

Interesting. My guess that Tesla is probably big enough where they can qualify for industrial rates, or negotiate lower demand charges or supplement their chargers with powerwalls, where they can reduce the overall peak and essentially eliminate or substantially reduce demand charges. Similar to what freewire is doing with their chargers, by incorporating batteries in each charger, they can operate a 150kW DCFC with only a 35-50kW connection.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Interesting. My guess that Tesla is probably big enough where they can qualify for industrial rates, or negotiate lower demand charges or supplement their chargers with powerwalls, where they can reduce the overall peak and essentially eliminate or substantially reduce demand charges. Similar to what freewire is doing with their chargers, by incorporating batteries in each charger, they can operate a 150kW DCFC with only a 35-50kW connection.

“Industrial rates” aren’t a thing. For high power grid connections, you get hit with demand charges, which make it more expensive, not less. That’s one reason why companies charge like $.50/kWh when the normal residential rate in the area might be $.30/kWh (the other reason being capital expense, rent and maintenance).

 

[Cosmacelf]

I'm just assuming that part is accurate. They are installing 12 SC and some L2 stalls.

What I was commenting on is OPs question to why Tesla installs 12 connectors while CCS installs are 1-6 connectors at most.

Because there are a lot more Tesla vehicles on the road than all other EVs combined. They build big stations because they have to, to support their customers. When Tesla was just starting to build their Supercharger network in 2013, they’d build 2-4 station locations. A 6 station location was a big one. Those days are long gone. Tesla now has several locations that are on the order of 100 stations.

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