Tested: Does charging a Rivian with 350kW vs150kW station actually matter?

[branden]

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[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Bottom line?

 

[branden]

Bottom line?

It depends.

 

[Aag12]

Nice video Branden! I subscribed last week. I hate how the last video you posted got a few bad comments on YouTube or reddit/here.

These lazy mofos from their pc just bitch about everything and ain't appreciative of the content you spent to record and edit.

Ain't everyone getting Mr beast money to pull a video together.

Keep it up.

Videos ain't perfect, but you keep doing you. You'll get the subs eventually

 

[jjswan33]

Nice video Branden! I subscribed last week. I hate how the last video you posted got a few bad comments on YouTube or reddit/here.

These lazy mofos from their pc just bitch about everything and ain't appreciative of the content you spent to record and edit.

Ain't everyone getting Mr beast money to pull a video together.

Keep it up.

Videos ain't perfect, but you keep doing you. You'll get the subs eventually

I’ll admit I haven’t watched any of these. My take is if he needs to self promote then his videos must not be that great.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

This was a great video for a couple of different reasons.

The current charge limit for the Rivian makes it so the 350KW chargers don't really give much benefit. So aside from information gathering on initial plugin with a low state of charge there isn't much reason to use them. If there are other vehicles capable of the 350KW then I'd prefer to leave it for them.

The second thing is something I've noticed as well where the charge estimate in minutes is completely off. It's almost a total joke.

I do think it would be worth comparing EA chargers with Rivian chargers. Its been my experience that the Rivian chargers are faster, but it was so unexpected that I didn't think the record the charging session. I also live far away from the closest one in Cali.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

I’ll admit I haven’t watched any of these. My take is if he needs to self promote then his videos must not be that great.

I don't really see it as self-promotion.

He spent time documenting the charging session and is simply posting that information to those who it impacts.

So much of the content posted to this forum is top notch. Before I watched this video there was so excellent information on bottoming out protection (or the lack of) from another poster.

 

[jjswan33]

I don't really see it as self-promotion.

He spent time documenting the charging session and is simply posting that information to those who it impacts.

So much of the content posted to this forum is top notch. Before I watched this video there was so excellent information on bottoming out protection (or the lack of) from another poster.

Well his whole reason for posting here is to get views and subscribers and eventually make money. I have no problem if people want to watch them, Im just saying that I refuse to watch self promoted videos.

 

[Rally1]

Trolls aside, thanks for the video. Good comment around the official Rivian chargers, would be interesting to compare the numbers.

 

[emoore]

Nice video Branden! I subscribed last week. I hate how the last video you posted got a few bad comments on YouTube or reddit/here.

These lazy mofos from their pc just bitch about everything and ain't appreciative of the content you spent to record and edit.

Ain't everyone getting Mr beast money to pull a video together.

Keep it up.

Videos ain't perfect, but you keep doing you. You'll get the subs eventually

Ummm what? Is this in English?

 

[MoreTrout]

Really useful video. I would say get over any Youtube/self promotion aversions you have and just watch it. But for those that refuse or can't spare 15 minutes of their life:

He compared 4 charging sessions from 5%-85%. Two were 350kW/500A, one a 150kW/350A and the last a 184kW/400A. Bottom line, all four sessions were just under an hour and the time difference for the entire charge among all 4 was LESS THAN 1 MINUTE.

My takeaway is that the faster initial rates result in much more overheating which then requires increasing throttling for battery cooling to a level below what the lower power charger can maintain throughout the curve, so they catch up.


His explanation in the first few minutes explained my recent experience. I plugged into 2 different EA 150 kW stations and was surprised to see sustained rates of 160-175 kW. Turns out they are actually 175 kW capable and just labelled as 150. My prior experiences on 350 kW chargers had pretty quick throttling to around those levels after a brief ~200 peak, so I suspected there wouldn't be much difference, but this video more objectively confirmed that for me.

I agree it will be nice to see a comparison on a RAN charger. If the issue is higher powers resulting in battery temps getting too high that then require throttling, then my first thought would be it shouldn't be any different. Based on the few posts I have come across from RAN charging sessions here though, they do seem to hold higher peaks for longer. It's probably more complex than a simple power/temperature response and probably more aggressively manages it right from the start on a RAN charger since it knows what it wants and what it is going to get immediately. With any of the other various networks out there it is probably more of a "give me what you can" and then has to figure it out and manage battery temps in a more reactive way.

For now, the EA charger I go to 2-3 times a month on my trip between home and camp has consistently given me free sessions on the 350 kW station. I don't know if the 150 kW will charge me or also be free, but I don't see a need to experiment for now. Free is free.

 

[COdogman]

Thanks for the videos, Branden. If YOU enjoy making them, then keep doing it and those who want to watch, will. Others can do what they want.

 

[manitou202]

This is still one of the biggest weaknesses of the R1 platform. 45 minutes to reach 80% charge. To really be competitive it needs to be about 30 minutes or less. I understand the battery is massive, but Lucid and Mercedes are able to hit 80% in around 30 minutes with similar size batteries.

Lucid Air 112-118 kWh usable
10-80% 34 minutes

Mercedes EQS 107kWh usable
10-80% 31 minutes

R1 Platform 125kWh usable
10-80% 45 minutes

On a long road trip with multiple stops per day, this can easily add an extra hour or two of charging time.

 

[MoreTrout]

This is still one of the biggest weaknesses of the R1 platform. 45 minutes to reach 80% charge. To really be competitive it needs to be about 30 minutes or less. I understand the battery is massive, but Lucid and Mercedes are able to hit 80% in around 30 minutes with similar size batteries.

Lucid Air 112-118 kWh usable
10-80% 34 minutes

Mercedes EQS 107kWh usable
10-80% 31 minutes

R1 Platform 125kWh usable
10-80% 45 minutes

On a long road trip with multiple stops per day, this can easily add an extra hour or two of charging time.

For my needs, to be competitive the Lucid and Mercedes need to reliably navigate muddy, rutted, rocky, sometimes underwater roads. And haul a lawnmower and other dirty gear in the vehicle. This is still one of the biggest weaknesses of Lucid and Mercedes (and just about every other option). The reality is that homeowners rarely need DCFC from 10-80%. And even on longer road trips, 10-70% or even 30-70% can easily be done in barely more time than it takes to go in for a bathroom break and a snack, and on longer road trips we're usually stopping every couple of hours anyway which translates into about that. ABRP, Plugshare, and even the in vehicle nav makes it very easy to match bathroom breaks and other stops to charging that result in sitting in the vehicle for no more than 5 or 10 minutes. Add in a stop to sit down and eat, and one 10-85% stop can easily be done while I am eating. I know. I've done it. I really don't care if there are other vehicles out there that would have been done 10 or 15 minutes before I was done eating and paying the bill. The last time I did it the restaurant was a little busy, and I would have had to get up and go outside to unplug early to avoid the idle fee. Different people have different needs. If someone wants a pretty road sedan/hatchback that meets a not very meaningful charging metric for just as much or way more than the Rivian costs, than go for it. In my mind, and for a lot of others, there is very little competition out there for what this truck is capable of doing. Just my perspective.

 

[manitou202]

For my needs, to be competitive the Lucid and Mercedes need to reliably navigate muddy, rutted, rocky, sometimes underwater roads. And haul a lawnmower and other dirty gear in the vehicle. This is still one of the biggest weaknesses of Lucid and Mercedes (and just about every other option). The reality is that homeowners rarely need DCFC from 10-80%. And even on longer road trips, 10-70% or even 30-70% can easily be done in barely more time than it takes to go in for a bathroom break and a snack, and on longer road trips we're usually stopping every couple of hours anyway which translates into about that. ABRP, Plugshare, and even the in vehicle nav makes it very easy to match bathroom breaks and other stops to charging that result in sitting in the vehicle for no more than 5 or 10 minutes. Add in a stop to sit down and eat, and one 10-85% stop can easily be done while I am eating. I know. I've done it. I really don't care if there are other vehicles out there that would have been done 10 or 15 minutes before I was done eating and paying the bill. The last time I did it the restaurant was a little busy, and I would have had to get up and go outside to unplug early to avoid the idle fee. Different people have different needs. If someone wants a pretty road sedan/hatchback that meets a not very meaningful charging metric for just as much or way more than the Rivian costs, than go for it. In my mind, and for a lot of others, there is very little competition out there for what this truck is capable of doing. Just my perspective.

Obviously the Lucid and the Mercedes do not have many of the capabilities of the R1T (they are intended for different buyers), and charging speeds aren't that important for everyone. For me personally I'm not concerned about the charging speeds, as I rarely use DCFC chargers.

I'm simply pointing out that this will become a weakness for Rivian unless they improve charging speeds over time. Most new EVs in the premium categories are hitting the 30 minutes or less mark. GM will most likely hit this with the Silverado next year. Hopefully when Rivian moves to the 800V architecture in a few years, the charging speeds improve.

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