The Worst Thing Rivian Lifted from Tesla

[Engi_Nerd]

The one thing I truly despise about purchasing a Tesla was how ridiculous it is to have to purchase such an expensive vehicle from a company with known terrible quality control without being able to drive it first. For example, many of the newer Model Ys have started exhibiting motor whine that is much louder than previous models. This is no doubt a result of Tesla relentlessly cutting costs, trying to find the absolute bottom customers will accept. The consumer has no way to screen for dynamic defects like these before signing, and just has to drive away with any squeaks, rattles, whistles, vibrations, and misalignments their copy was blessed with. This approach hugely lowers the bar for manufacturing, essentially leaving it up to the customer to wrestle with service to work out the last 5-10% of QC. At the end of the day, for us, all the anxiety they've removed by streamlining the actual purchase process was just deferred to the drive home, nervously waiting to see what it is you are actually stuck with.

I am very disappointed to see Rivian copy this model that is so hostile to the consumer. If you have faith in your product, you should let people test drive THEIR ACTUAL TRUCK before signing for it, similar to legacy auto makers. Their claimed "full refund" return period, similar to Tesla's old policy, is of no real value given that it always takes weeks to receive your first service appointment. It sounds like there are several somewhat common issues with people's trucks pulling to the right, vibrating at speed, whistling due to bad window seals, and squeaking or tocking suspension that would make a test drive incredibly informative. People should know what they are signing up for.

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[Blueassassin]

That's what the first mile events and 10 days return are for. I think the worst thing they took was the anti repair mentality and no parts availability to owners.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Those problems appear to be so common that a test drive would just be affirmation that your truck functions just as everyone else's. I don't think there's anything you can learn in the first test drive that would turn you off from the truck, honestly.

 

[Attesan997]

The one thing I truly despise about purchasing a Tesla was how ridiculous it is to have to purchase such an expensive vehicle from a company with known terrible quality control without being able to drive it first. For example, many of the newer Model Ys have started exhibiting motor whine that is much louder than previous models. This is no doubt a result of Tesla relentlessly cutting costs, trying to find the absolute bottom customers will accept. The consumer has no way to screen for dynamic defects like these before signing, and just has to drive away with any squeaks, rattles, whistles, vibrations, and misalignments their copy was blessed with. This approach hugely lowers the bar for manufacturing, essentially leaving it up to the customer to wrestle with service to work out the last 5-10% of QC. At the end of the day, for us, all the anxiety they've removed by streamlining the actual purchase process was just deferred to the drive home, nervously waiting to see what it is you are actually stuck with.

I am very disappointed to see Rivian copy this model that is so hostile to the consumer. If you have faith in your product, you should let people test drive BEFORE signing for it, similar to legacy auto makers. Their claimed "full refund" return period, similar to Tesla's old policy, is of no real value given that it always takes weeks to receive your first service appointment. It sounds like there are several somewhat common issues with people's trucks pulling to the right, vibrating at speed, whistling due to bad window seals, and squeaking or tocking suspension that would make a test drive incredibly informative. People should know what they are signing up for.

You mean test drive the actual vehicle that's going to be purchased at the time of delivery right? Because things like the first mile events already exist and realistically even if one were to find some sort of manufacturing error on a unit at a FME it doesn't mean the one they buy will have the same issue. Overall it seems like quality is higher than the low bar Tesla has set. The true test is whether it continues to improve over time as the company matures or just finds an acceptable baseline.

 

[Siguy90]

Well I'm not really understanding the QC issue with Rivian's model compared to the traditional method of going through the dealer. Won't it be the same for the customer if they run into issues with the car they picked up?

As for the test drives I agree in that Rivian needs to prioritize making sure everyone who is close to getting their vehicles has had at least 1 first mile drive. There's plenty of people on this forum that said they never got a chance to drive or even sit in a Rivian prior to taking delivery. Sure it's not that big of a concern since you can easily resell the car but still.

An example is what Fisker did. They sent me an email asking me to send them $5k to order a Ocean One. That is non-refundable and yet there is barely any information on what I'm even going to get. I ended up backing out of it since it was not a risk I wanted to take, especially for a company that has been bankrupt before.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

I did mean driving their actual truck and edited for clarity.

The quality of first drive vehicles will no doubt be more tightly controlled, similar to press vehicles. The current system bakes in zero consumer leverage against production variance. People end up accepting /refusing delivery based on panel gaps and paint quality, hoping it's a quality indicator.

 

[atebit]

I was not thrilled that I had to “Sign, Then Drive”, either. This was somewhat mitigated by my delivery specialist doing a through job demonstrating features/functions, which in itself uncovered a number of issues that we noted & opened tickets for before the ink was dry in my electronic signature. My specialist also drove the truck around for a bit with me as the passenger, so I was able to get a feel for the ride quality, the way it sounded under power, etc. But I agree it’s no substitute for driving it before making it yours.

 

[Attesan997]

I did mean driving their actual truck and edited for clarity.

The quality of first drive vehicles will no doubt be more tightly controlled, similar to press vehicles.

How long would this drive be? I'm not trying to be snarky its just how long would one need to fully experience the ins and outs of a vehicle? Maybe there are some more suited to the task than myself but I couldn't do it in an hour or two, it'd take a few weeks living with the vehicle in my daily routine trying to flesh out issues. This excludes obvious defects which can and should be caught before getting to the delivery stage.

At this point every Rivian unit sold is going to a beta tester. Unfortunately it's someone paying to be a beta tester but this isn't a product coming from a mature company with all the kinks worked out. They're fixing things on the fly as they go.

 

[rodhx]

I was good with the purchase process. My list of "silly things people do because that's what Tesla does" is glass roofs, no start button, and no CarPlay/AA.

 

[atebit]

Well I'm not really understanding the QC issue with Rivian's model compared to the traditional method of going through the dealer. Won't it be the same for the customer if they run into issues with the car they picked up?

No. In the dealership model, the salesperson/product specialist works with you to select a car that you then test drive. Even in the custom-order world of say, Porsche, when your car arrives at the dealership, you are still given an opportunity to “Drive, then Sign”. If the car doesn’t meet your (reasonable) expectations, you go back in & hand the fob to the salesperson and say, “No thanks”. This leads to a flurry of dialog and activity to make things right, which could be choosing another vehicle on the lot, the dealer locating one for you, a trip to the workshop to correct the issue, or at worst, a WE OWE from the dealer and an expedited service appointment to fix the issue. This happens because in this model the buyer has all the leverage until the paperwork’s done.

Tesla and Rivian are taking advantage of limited availability, mystique and demand, banking that buyers will “just sign” to get what they’ve been waiting for, and let Service sort it out later.

Much later.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

How long would this drive be? I'm not trying to be snarky its just how long would one need to fully experience the ins and outs of a vehicle? Maybe there are some more suited to the task than myself but I couldn't do it in an hour or two, it'd take a few weeks living with the vehicle in my daily routine trying to flesh out issues. This excludes obvious defects which can and should be caught before getting to the delivery stage.

At this point every Rivian unit sold is going to a beta tester. Unfortunately it's someone paying to be a beta tester but this isn't a product coming from a mature company with all the kinks worked out. They're fixing things on the fly as they go.

We test drove 4 different Model Ys before purchasing, which was totaled shortly after purchase. Of the 6, I can tell you all drove and sounded different straight away. One had terrible ear pain from the hatch vibrating, one had tons of wind noise on the highway, one pulled to the right. These are easy things to check for on a 10 minute test drive. My Alfa dealer wouldn't even let me sign until I took it for a spin.

 

[Florida Panhandler]

The dealer business model also charges the buyer for prep, delivery, and also any mandatory dealer markups (The new Ford Raptor R Is currently $50k Markup at some dealers ) You pay for your first-class treatment. Tesla and Rivian (and many others likely) are moving towards the model where they can offer a firm sales price on the website and cut out the dealer shenanigans. And yes, this may mean a service center appointment for any fixes but does allow prompt delivery without any shady dealership add-ones. I know, I’ve had my share of dealership bad experiences.

 

[Attesan997]

We test drove 4 different Model Ys before purchasing, which was totaled shortly after purchase. Of the 6, I can tell you all drove and sounded different straight away. One had terrible ear pain from the hatch vibrating, one had tons of wind noise on the highway, one pulled to the right. These are easy things to check for on a 10 minute test drive. My Alfa dealer wouldn't even let me sign until I took it for a spin.

I think you're complaint is only indicative of the current state of Rivian. They have only a couple of "experience centers" and all other locations are service. Tesla also offers the whole refuse at delivery and get placed back in queue, while I'm not sure its as clean of a process for Rivian. I'm not saying you're wrong in wanting these things it just seems unlikely Rivian is prioritizing them over expansion goals. Pumping out units = survival and If they don't increase profitability before their warchest of money runs out I'm not sure it matters what they've gotten right or improved up to that point.

 

[COdogman]

I definitely understand the OP’s point, wanting a chance to test drive his actual truck before signing. I’ve just accepted that is not how things work now, and as long as there is a generous return period I can “test” it out thoroughly on my own after delivery.

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