Manchin says expanded EV tax credit is dead

[Sgt Beavis]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...trip-union-ev-credit-bonus-opposed-by-manchin

Basically, Manchin got the extra $4500 tax rebate removed from the new version of the Build Back Better bill. The existing $7500 credit is still in place and there are negotiations to remove the 200000 vehicle limit. That would let GM, Tesla, and Nissan buyers use the credit again.

Seems to me that the union provision was the thing that killed it for Manchin.

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[Eeyore]

Not a fan of that asshat.

 

[electruck]

Not a fan of that asshat.

I'm not a fan either but also wasn't a fan of the union favoritism designed to put the likes of Rivian and Tesla at a disadvantage to legacy automakers.

 

[Eeyore]

I'm not a fan either but also wasn't a fan of the union favoritism designed to put the likes of Rivian and Tesla at a disadvantage to legacy automakers.

While I am a fan of my Union, I didn't feel good about that part either, even though it could have applied to any of the car factories in the South where they have right to work (for less) laws.

 

[Longreach]

The $4,500 union add on was never defensible, and was likely added as a known throw out only to curry favor with voter groups.

Questions still open:
- Credit or rebate
- Income phaseout/cap
- Vehicle price cap
- Total production phaseout/cap

Manchin’s comment about “intent” at least shows the whole discussion is still alive!

 

[AdamsFan1983]

Devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. I’d prefer things to remain as they are.

 

[atebit]

Take that extra $4500/EV and put it towards incentives for building out public charging infra. IMHO in 2022+ lack of infra is the biggest barrier to adaption, not people being wary of EVs themselves.

 

[Max]

If it actually translated to more affordable EVs, it would be great but I see tax credit mostly as a handout to the manufacturers to stay competitive at the time they have a hard time making enough EVs to meet the demand at current prices. And it may have the opposite of intended effect. GM dropped price of Bolt without tax credit. I wouldn’t be surprised if they bump it back up when they are back in the game. Then those that don’t have enough tax liability end up paying more for the same EV because of tax incentive so they will have incentive to buy an ICE instead. I doubt Tesla would let customer see a penny of the incentive if they are back in the game. They need to put all that money on infrastructure.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

The $4,500 union add on was never defensible, and was likely added as a known throw out only to curry favor with voter groups.

Questions still open:
- Credit or rebate
- Income phaseout/cap
- Vehicle price cap
- Total production phaseout/cap

Manchin’s comment about “intent” at least shows the whole discussion is still alive!

Yea, I really hope they can turn the existing credit into a rebate. I can easily take advantage of the credit. There are too many that cannot.

I’m mostly on board with a vehicle price cap and the removal of the production cap number.

 

[Gator42]

Everyone loves the subsidies they love and hate paying for the subsidies they hate. Forced cross-subsidies are the right answer to absolutely no question ever.

 

[timf]

I appreciate the legislators who vote independently rather than rubber stamp their party's agenda. The union provision served only to benefit those who bankroll their campaigns, as there is no environmental benefit to someone buying a union-made vs. non-union EV. Hopefully they revisit the MSRP caps as the current rate of price increases is going to quickly disqualify many models. My vote would be to keep the tax credit as-is and simply remove the 200,000 vehicle per manufacturer cap and instead sunset it after a number of years or percentage of market share.

 

[jphillips97]

Manchin is one of the best in the Senate... Votes his conscience and not party line.... My guess is those that do not like him want him to vote with his party and not with his brain

 

[jphillips97]

I appreciate the legislators who vote independently rather than rubber stamp their party's agenda. The union provision served only to benefit those who bankroll their campaigns, as there is no environmental benefit to someone buying a union-made vs. non-union EV. Hopefully they revisit the MSRP caps as the current rate of price increases is going to quickly disqualify many models. My vote would be to keep the tax credit as-is and simply remove the 200,000 vehicle per manufacturer cap and instead sunset it after a number of years or percentage of market share.

This times 1000!

 

[lostpacket]

So I don't think the credit was ever about driving demand among consumers. They knew manufacturers would raise the price accordingly. Rather this was about making the profit calculations easier for manufacturers to invest in all the capacity, engineering etc. It was meant to kick start the transition to EVs and bring competition to the market.

Just something to keep in mind when Manchin prattles on about not needing to drive adoption. Also Toyota is about to cap out.

It's also important to remember that means testing is a tactic to neuter government programs. It's seductive because it plays people off of each other debating who "deserves" the credit. And Toyota focuses heavily on the low cost segment. Seems to me they would love a credit that only got used to buy Prius and Rav Primes. Manchin's motives for means testing are pretty suspect to me.

 

[moosehead]

Manchin does not GAF about EV adoption or any green inititatives. He is not only a coal roller, but a major investor in coal industries. None of this is secret.

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