Ketchum: Wait for LiDAR? - The Rivian R2 LiDAR story isn’t what you think

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Point to point is not tied to eyes off or LiDAR/RAP1. It is coming to all Gen2 vehicles (R1 and R2) later this year.

I think you're right about the customer deliveries vs development builds for the "late 2026" claims about LiDAR. Other Rivian interviews have mentioned that model year 2028 will have LiDAR, so I suspect we'll see some test vehicles this year but it won't be in customer vehicles until mid-late 2027 (ie MY28).

As for which trims get LiDAR, I have no reason to believe it wouldn't be all of them (except maybe the $45k base model). They want LiDAR out there not because it will provide the driver with an immediate benefit (a la heated seats or other trim-specific upgrades), but because it will provide huge amounts of training data for their Large Driving Model. I hedged a bit with the Standard because they may use it as a marketing strategy to push people to the Standard AWD to capture a bit more margin, but I think they want it on as many vehicles as possible as quickly as possible.

Higher the trim, higher the profit margin. That is the norm in the car industry. I feel like Base trim (including the $45k model) will not have the option. Knowing there are people willing to wait and pay more for latest-and-greatest, I think they will use LiDAR/RAP as the carrot to up-sell to higher trims. We'll see in due time.

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[Zathras]

But they can also ask, "What is this weird, non-functional placeholder on the windshield?"

I bet three people in total might do that.

 

[Zathras]

They never said Premium would be with LiDAR. So you probably won't have Premium AND LiDAR. I know RJ said they'll start building LiDAR cars late 2026, but he didn't say it in context of customer deliveries. He could be referring to production with internal use/testing in mind. AND point-to-point was never tied to LiDAR, was it? AFAIK, it's tied to eyes-off (which not only require LiDAR but also legislation in some states).

They have said every single R2 with have LiDAR once it starts shipping. But only after it's available. You're right about the rest.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

There are also people waiting for a more affordable R2. Not everyone has $60K to drop on a vehicle, especially in today’s economy.

Unless I win one of these EV contests, I’ll be waiting for lease deals on the R2 Standard Long-Range RWD. If I can’t make that work I’m going to lease something else until the R3 comes out (2029/2030?)

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

He's not wrong. It's a good video that everyone should watch.

It's so obvious to me from a business perspective that Rivian is including Autonomy+ for free on LE so people will buy it and not wait for RAP1/LIDAR. LE ends when RAP1/LIDAR begins IMO. Ironically, I have a feeling some of those waiting for RAP1/LIDAR will regret that decision later on. You will have to pay $2,500 for Autonomy+ and maybe more for the car if Rivian raises prices. Anyone seen the prices of RAM these days? Even Apple isn't immune from price increases, so no doubt Rivian will increase prices too. "When" is the ultimate question.

To each his own and some want to hedge against future autonomy changes, but it seems to me Rivian is a LONGGGGG way away from that; they have to catch where Tesla is today first. They said the current chipset has plenty of headroom for point to point/hands off autonomy like Tesla has now. Good enough for me.

YMMV

I agree with your business perspective. Rivian doesn’t want to create early adopter launch customers without RAP1+LiDar and those with it 6 months later. I think they’ll hit their 25K goal by the end of the year and that will be it for the launch package. The Premium might be the first R2 with RAP1+LiDar, but I’m sure there will be a non-Launch Performance, too.

As for autonomy, I’ve tried recent builds of FSD on my Model 3 and it’s just not for me. It makes me more stressed out babysitting the thing than driving myself. I’m also afraid if I did subscribe to it and got used it I’d grow complacent. Then if I got into a situation where I’d have to take over I might not react in time.

It’s just not worth it to me. It would have to be foolproof first. Not to mention that I like to drive. All I need is advanced cruise control with lane centering to give me a break on long trips. I guess I’m old school, but I do love new tech. I just don’t think it’s fully baked yet.

 

[Eric9610]

There are also people waiting for a more affordable R2. Not everyone has $60K to drop on a vehicle, especially in today’s economy.

Unless I win one of these EV contests, I’ll be waiting for lease deals on the R2 Standard Long-Range RWD. If I can’t make that work I’m going to lease something else until the R3 comes out (2029/2030?)

Lease rates will follow the price structure of the Model Y. So, pick the tesla equivalent model and see the rates. Rivian has no incentive to be lower price as the R2 is much more compelling than a model Y.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Or ask yourself this question - will you pay $50/month for autonomy plus w/ the new chip? I know I won't.

I currently pay $100/month for FSD and use it extensively. I sure as hell wouldn’t pay $50/month for Autonomy+ in its current form. But when it’s equivalent to Tesla FSD, sure.

But I’m planning on a Launch Edition for lifetime Autonomy+. I don’t need LiDAR.

 

[JeffnReno]

They should consider free lifetime 12v battery replacements as a draw considering what Rivian charges just for that every few years....

 

[kshtxag]

All I need is advanced cruise control with lane centering to give me a break on long trips. I guess I’m old school, but I do love new tech. I just don’t think it’s fully baked yet.

Not a current Rivian owner, so please allow a simple question:
I don’t care that much about hands free driving, but I really love adaptive cruise on my Lyriq, and auto lane centering that I had in Tesla's Autosteer. Is that combination standard on the R2, or is that only available on Autonomy+ ?

 

[godfodder0901]

Not a current Rivian owner, so please allow a simple question:

I don’t care that much about hands free driving, but I really love adaptive cruise on my Lyriq, and auto lane centering that I had in Tesla's Autosteer. Is that combination standard on the R2, or is that only available on Autonomy+ ?

Standard. The Autosteer function (called Highway Assist) is only available on certain pre-mapped highways though.

 

[godfodder0901]

https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver

That post is for Driver+ which only applies to Gen 1 vehicles. Gen 2 and beyond get RAP.
https://rivian.com/support/article/...tween-driver-and-the-rivian-autonomy-platform

This is what RAP gives you:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-the-rivian-autonomy-platform

 

[rvnxyz001]

That post is for Driver+ which only applies to Gen 1 vehicles. Gen 2 and beyond get RAP.
https://rivian.com/support/article/...tween-driver-and-the-rivian-autonomy-platform

This is what RAP gives you:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-the-rivian-autonomy-platform

So do they have free cruise control/lane keep assist/collision mitigation etc?
---
Nm, found here https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-the-rivian-autonomy-platform

 

[kshtxag]

Thanks all. Not to hijack this thread, but here is what Rivian Assistant says:

Rivian Assistant

You’re asking a great question—these terms can be confusing, especially as Rivian’s technology evolves. Here’s how they apply to the R2:

• Rivian Driver+ is the suite of assisted driving features that came standard on earlier Rivian vehicles (model years 2022–2024). It’s not the platform for R2, so you won’t see “Driver+” referenced for your R2.
• Rivian Autonomy Platform (RAP) is the standard hardware and software suite on all Gen 2 vehicles, including R2. It includes features like Highway Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist, Park Assist, Blind Spot Monitoring, and more. These are always-on safety and driver assistance features.
• Autonomy+ is an optional upgrade (included for free with the R2 Launch Package, or available as a subscription or one-time purchase for other trims). It unlocks advanced features like Universal Hands-Free (hands-off driving on 3.5 million miles of roads), Lane Change on Command, and soon, address-to-address hands-free driving. With the Launch Package, you get Autonomy+ for the lifetime of the vehicle; otherwise, you get a 60-day trial and can subscribe or buy it outright.

 

[JeffnReno]

Standard. The Autosteer function (called Highway Assist) is only available on certain pre-mapped highways though.

I thought they said UHF would work on any roads with clearly painted lines, not just mapped areas. I'm I missing something?

 

[Torrey]

Does anyone know if the pre and post LIDAR will be running the same software and training data or will there be enhancements in 1-2 years that will be applicable only to post LIDAR. For example, if post LIDAR is better at detecting railroad crossings, construction zones, emergency vehicles, etc. will those enhancements automatically get into pre LIDAR or will RIVIAN have to maintain both old and new software...in which case there is risk at some point that the older version will get less support. Given that they will be using different chips, will there be significant differences in software.

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