Rival: 2026 BMW iX3 reviews are impressive... R2 has its work cut out

[Zathras]

Not having 800v is going to come back to haunt R2. Imo. Unless they really beefed up battery cooling for these new cells.

What I've been hearing is that having an 800v car in the US is not a good thing. Because most chargers, including most Superchargers, limit the BMW and some other 800v cars to 120 kilowatts. And that won't likely be changing for at least five years. So that means it will take longer to charge that BMW than an R2 most places. So it does not bother me.

Besides, at my age, when I drive almost 300 miles I won't mind having a half hour to stretch my legs at all.

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[Jeremy3292]

What I've been hearing is that having an 800v car in the US is not a good thing. Because most chargers, including most Superchargers, limit the BMW and some other 800v cars to 120 kilowatts. And that won't likely be changing for at least five years. So that means it will take longer to charge that BMW than an R2 most places. So it does not bother me.

Besides, at my age, when I drive almost 300 miles I won't mind having a half hour to stretch my legs at all.

It won’t take longer than an R2 I don’t think, it just won’t be faster.

You’re right I can’t think of any major 800v chargers out there today though. Tesla has a few with their new V4 cabinets slowly appearing but there’s only a handful today. Like literally a handful. Maybe EA has a few? But they’re so unreliable. Rivian has some with their new gen chargers. Oh I guess IONNA is the main ones to watch - an actual real charging network competitor to Tesla. They’re all 800v for sure.

So yeah 800v is great in theory but we’re 5 years away from it being truly useful here in the USA.

 

[manitou202]

It won’t take longer than an R2 I don’t think, it just won’t be faster.

You’re right I can’t think of any major 800v chargers out there today though. Tesla has a few with their new V4 cabinets slowly appearing but there’s only a handful today. Like literally a handful. Maybe EA has a few? But they’re so unreliable. Rivian has some with their new gen chargers. Oh I guess IONNA is the main ones to watch - an actual real charging network competitor to Tesla. They’re all 800v for sure.

So yeah 800v is great in theory but we’re 5 years away from it being truly useful here in the USA.

All EA, Chargepoint, Ionity, etc. are all 800V chargers. Tesla is the only major network that has a majority of 400V chargers.

On all my roadtrips in my EVs over the past 5 years, I've never used a Tesla Supercharger. The 800V will be a huge benefit for most people.

 

[manitou202]

What I've been hearing is that having an 800v car in the US is not a good thing. Because most chargers, including most Superchargers, limit the BMW and some other 800v cars to 120 kilowatts. And that won't likely be changing for at least five years. So that means it will take longer to charge that BMW than an R2 most places. So it does not bother me.

Besides, at my age, when I drive almost 300 miles I won't mind having a half hour to stretch my legs at all.

The iX3 can charge at 200kW on 400V chargers. It can split the pack into two 400V systems and charge at 200kW.

Where did you see only 120kW?

 

[Zathras]

The iX3 can charge at 200kW on 400V chargers. It can split the pack into two 400V systems and charge at 200kW.

Where did you see only 120kW?

it was a video on YouTube be an EV reviewer. Its topic was about Rivian’s plan for the next year, and specifically about why they chose not to go 800v.

 

[Jeremy3292]

All EA, Chargepoint, Ionity, etc. are all 800V chargers. Tesla is the only major network that has a majority of 400V chargers.

On all my roadtrips in my EVs over the past 5 years, I've never used a Tesla Supercharger. The 800V will be a huge benefit for most people.

Must be a west coast thing. ChargePoint and EA are an absolute joke here in the southeast. Absolute trash chargers. EA put their “latest and greatest gen chargers” near me and they never work. Always offline. ChargePoint is mostly L2s and if you do find a DCFC they’re 62.5 kW, always broken, and shouldn’t even exist. Never heard of IONITY. Glad you have good options where you live!

The ONLY reliable chargers are Tesla up and down the entire southeast from my travels. Hell there really aren’t any other choices than Tesla. Couple of 4 stall EA here and there. Maybe an 8 staller in bigger city like Charlotte here or there. EVGO is another one that should just close their business also; joke of a company. IONNA is one new company I REALLY hope succeeds and becomes everywhere like Tesla is. They’re doing it right and seem very legit. Waiting for one to open near me to check out.

I was also not suggesting we shouldn’t be for OEMs doing 800v by default these days now, I’m just agreeing the infrastructure really isn’t there across the USA. Maybe west coast has better options. I visit family in VA and up through DC and there’s nothing that works there either really except Tesla from my experience.

 

[DuoRivians]

It won’t take longer than an R2 I don’t think, it just won’t be faster.

You’re right I can’t think of any major 800v chargers out there today though. Tesla has a few with their new V4 cabinets slowly appearing but there’s only a handful today. Like literally a handful. Maybe EA has a few? But they’re so unreliable. Rivian has some with their new gen chargers. Oh I guess IONNA is the main ones to watch - an actual real charging network competitor to Tesla. They’re all 800v for sure.

So yeah 800v is great in theory but we’re 5 years away from it being truly useful here in the USA.

All Rivian DCFCs should now be v1.5 cabinets, capable of 350kw charging on 800v

 

[manitou202]

it was a video on YouTube be an EV reviewer. Its topic was about Rivian’s plan for the next year, and specifically about why they chose not to go 800v.

BMW is showing 200kW @ 400V. This has also been discussed on the BMW forums.

 

[LevelHeaded]

it was a video on YouTube be an EV reviewer. Its topic was about Rivian’s plan for the next year, and specifically about why they chose not to go 800v.

It all depends on the implementation. BMW is doing the thing where they can split the pack and charge at 400v fine

whereas my understanding is the EX60’s 800v system for example works differently and the max charge rate on 400v is gimped

 

[manitou202]

Must be a west coast thing. ChargePoint and EA are an absolute joke here in the southeast. Absolute trash chargers. EA put their “latest and greatest gen chargers” near me and they never work. Always offline. ChargePoint is mostly L2s and if you do find a DCFC they’re 62.5 kW, always broken, and shouldn’t even exist. Never heard of IONITY. Glad you have good options where you live!

The ONLY reliable chargers are Tesla up and down the entire southeast from my travels. Hell there really aren’t any other choices than Tesla. Couple of 4 stall EA here and there. Maybe an 8 staller in bigger city like Charlotte here or there. EVGO is another one that should just close their business also; joke of a company. IONNA is one new company I REALLY hope succeeds and becomes everywhere like Tesla is. They’re doing it right and seem very legit. Waiting for one to open near me to check out.

I was also not suggesting we shouldn’t be for OEMs doing 800v by default these days now, I’m just agreeing the infrastructure really isn’t there across the USA. Maybe west coast has better options. I visit family in VA and up through DC and there’s nothing that works there either really except Tesla from my experience.

I did a quick search on PlugShare of chargers with over 150kW, non-Tesla, and a score of 8 or higher, and there is a lot of coverage on the east coast. EA used to have a lot of problems, but they have become significantly more reliable. Also the days of Chargepoint with only 62.5kW are long gone. Most of their new chargers are 200kW+. You might want to look into other charging options. It might surprise you.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I did a quick search on PlugShare of chargers with over 150kW, non-Tesla, and a score of 8 or higher, and there is a lot of coverage on the east coast. EA used to have a lot of problems, but they have become significantly more reliable. Also the days of Chargepoint with only 62.5kW are long gone. Most of their new chargers are 200kW+. You might want to look into other charging options. It might surprise you.

Most of the stuff you see on PlugShare isn’t actually 150kW; it’s 200 amp limited crap. And if it’s only 150kW well that provides no better charging than 400v does. SC, NC, and VA that I travel a lot there is nothing reliable but Tesla, Rivian, and now IONNA. Sure there are random options available here and there. But I would never trust having to rely on EA, EVGO, or other chargers where I’m stranded if they don’t work. Those 62.5kW ChargePoint you said are obsolete? Yeah man that’s what we get around here; that’s what they install. It’s insane. Circle K made a few good 2 stallers here and there but now they’ve been taken over by IONNA thankfully. Shell Recharge is around, think maybe ChargePoint took them over, but they never work and aren’t 150kW. We have LOADS of crap DC chargers everywhere but nothing GOOD. If I drove you around over here I think you would be shocked at the DC chargers they put up in the southeast. Just absolutely ridiculous stuff that is clearly government money just wasted on crap. You guys don’t know how good you have it on the west coast.

Don’t want to get off topic in this thread though. I am all for 800v and hope every OEM does it ASAP.

 

[Apprunner]

Most of the stuff you see on PlugShare isn’t actually 150kW; it’s 200 amp limited crap. And if it’s only 150kW well that provides no better charging than 400v does. SC, NC, and VA that I travel a lot there is nothing reliable but Tesla, Rivian, and now IONNA. Sure there are random options available here and there. But I would never trust having to rely on EA, EVGO, or other chargers where I’m stranded if they don’t work. Those 62.5kW ChargePoint you said are obsolete? Yeah man that’s what we get around here; that’s what they install. It’s insane. Circle K made a few good 2 stallers here and there but now they’ve been taken over by IONNA thankfully. Shell Recharge is around, think maybe ChargePoint took them over, but they never work and aren’t 150kW. We have LOADS of crap DC chargers everywhere but nothing GOOD. If I drove you around over here I think you would be shocked at the DC chargers they put up in the southeast. Just absolutely ridiculous stuff that is clearly government money just wasted on crap. You guys don’t know how good you have it on the west coast.

Don’t want to get off topic in this thread though. I am all for 800v and hope every OEM does it ASAP.

Most of the non-Tesla chargers are garbage on the west coast. The largest installations are like 12-16 stalls...which are the smallest Tesla installations. I've been to 5 Tesla installations with more than 50 stalls and one with over a hundred. I've never had to wait at a Tesla station and I've yet to pull into an EA station without waiting. There are a couple that are always broken too.

I have an EV6 and still prefer a Tesla station...even at 96kw max charging, I know that I'll get a stall for sure and plug in then can go find something to eat. Way better than finding a 350kw station, having to wait 10-20 min then plug in and then go find something to eat. Both will take about 20-30 minute charge but one is way less stressful

 

[Jeremy3292]

Most of the non-Tesla chargers are garbage on the west coast. The largest installations are like 12-16 stalls...which are the smallest Tesla installations. I've been to 5 Tesla installations with more than 50 stalls and one with over a hundred. I've never had to wait at a Tesla station and I've yet to pull into an EA station without waiting. There are a couple that are always broken too.

I have an EV6 and still prefer a Tesla station...even at 96kw max charging, I know that I'll get a stall for sure and plug in then can go find something to eat. Way better than finding a 350kw station, having to wait 10-20 min then plug in and then go find something to eat. Both will take about 20-30 minute charge but one is way less stressful

Yeah that basically how I feel and how I see the charging infrastructure world myself. We have a bunch of random 2 stallers around from random brands that probably do 800v. But it’s 2 freaking stalls. Take EA for example. They have 800v charging but they don’t have a lot of stalls, the stalls they have may not work, and if they do work I probably will have to wait. So why not just go to Tesla and know I can just plug in and it’ll work? That’s why IONNA is exciting bc they are doing it the correct way. Rivian is also solid but their installs are on the small-ish side. That will change as they scale with R2 of course.

 

[kilpatds]

What I've been hearing is that having an 800v car in the US is not a good thing. Because most chargers, including most Superchargers, limit the BMW and some other 800v cars to 120 kilowatts.

Only superchargers are better for 400v cars than 800v. Basically every other DC fast charger is either faster at 800v (amp limited) or the same speed (power limited). Superchargers only support 400v, with like one exception to date.

 

[mellowthecat]

So I did a lease price comparison on the respective websites. $70k BMW iX3 (pretty well configured) versus $60K Rivian R2 Perf/Launch edition.

$2500 down, 12K miles/yr, 3 year lease.

The lease payment amounts before taxes and fees are different by about $150/mo. Much less than I thought.

BMW: $1082/mo
Rivian: $923/mo

I imagine you can negotiate for lower with BMW dealers at some point.

did you decide what you are going to do?

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