Featured Possible First Peek at Rivian's Future Rally Model

Discussion in 'Rally Model' started by Administrator, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

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    #1 Administrator, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    Rivian-Rally-Raid-3.jpg


    Take A Look In The Background

    While taking some spy shots of the Rivian R1T being driven around its Michigan headquarters (complete with its modular roof rack in place), our photographers noticed something very interesting in the background. Visible through an open door, a blue design buck can be seen, and it has a shape that's completely different from the R1T pickup and R1S SUV that wowed everyone at the Los Angeles Auto Show. Intrigued, we ran the photos by an associate with decades of experience working in one The Big Three’s design studios. Our source confirmed that what’s on unintentional display appears to be a seating buck for a new design that's under consideration.

    What’s a Seating Buck, Exactly?

    A seating buck is a very early stage of the design process, which represents one the first physical manifestations of the design’s ergonomics. The rough form—usually built out of plywood and painted foam—gives designers a real-world chance to sample the ergonomics and sight lines of a design. The seating buck provides a hands-on opportunity to sample a design's packaging, head clearance, and the vision enabled around the A-, B- and C-pillar, as well as the back glass. So the shape revealed on this particular seating buck would be representative of what the stylists have in mind for the packaging of the design under consideration.

    So What Does It Tell Us?
    The seating buck is clearly a four-door design, with an arching silhouette that is a complete departure from the very linear roof line seen on Rivian's R1T and R1S. The seating buck’s foam panels also suggest the possibility of drastically flared front fenders. While our designer source told us not to make too much of the exterior look of the seating buck’s shape, he acknowledged that the bulging nature of the buck’s front fender could have some meaning, as the visibility tests could very likely include the outward view of the car’s extremities—namely its hood and front flanks. If that is the case, what this seating buck reveals is a very nice match for what was promised by Rivian’s CEO in media interviews.

    A Rally-Raid Style Performance Car
    In an LA Auto Show report, British Mag Autocar wrote: “Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scaringe said that the model to follow its initial R1T pickup truck and R1S SUV would be ‘bananas’ in the way it performed.” Scaringe was quoted as saying: “The third vehicle will have a smaller wheelbase [than the R1S SUV] and will be the Rivian interpretation of a rally car with a lot of ground clearance.” The article goes on to further call it a “rally-raid style performance car.”

    The description of Rivian’s promised third model is largely consistent with what we see on the seating buck tucked inside its workshop. The arching roofline is certainly car-like, and a departure from the R1T and R1S. And those supposed flared front fenders—one can make the case that they further support the promise of a Rally-Raid model being fettled as Rivian’s third model offering.

    A Fleeting Glimpse, But Compelling Nonetheless

    The question of whether an automotive EV startup can actually deliver on its promised performance and actually reach production is always the issue when something makes a splash like Rivian did with the R1T and R1S. Is it vaporware? Can the claims of the CEO be trusted in light of the harsh realities of the automotive industry and the EV market?

    While this quick, long lens peek inside a Rivian workshop gives us just a brief glimpse at the seating buck in question, we’re fascinated that it seems to match up with the CEO’s promised follow-up to the company’s first salvo. The R1T and R1S were reportedly the result of about a decade’s work, and the outside world knew nothing of what was in store until they debuted under the bright lights of a major auto show. To perhaps get a taste of Rivian’s next project—at a very early stage—is very compelling.


    Rivian-Rally-Raid-4.jpg Rivian-Rally-Raid-1.jpg Rivian-Rally-Raid-2.jpg Rivian-Rally-Raid-3.jpg
     
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  2. Electronaut

    Electronaut Active Member

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    Wish we could see more! But from what we can see that's an ultra aggressive design with super flared fenders and very angular lines. It's a good start :)
     
  3. VSukx

    VSukx Member

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    Hopefully it's not 10 years of development on the Rally version! Can't wait for more tho they will probably be doing into defcon 5 shutdown because of this 'leak' ..thanks guys lol
     
  4. franke

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    Cant really tell much from this other than it is being worked on but good to know it is.. and that roof rack on the R1T !
     
  5. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster Member

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    First I've seen the roof rack attached! It's nice and sleek as I've hoped.

    You guys think the Rally Rivian model will be called the R1R?
     
  6. Jason's Rivian

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    So are we talking about a WRX type vehicle or something that'll create its own niche and segment? Just hope that the Rally Rivian is not an answer to a question that nobody is asking (or buying). Even with Amazon's recent investment, I'm sure Rivian's cash burn rate is high, so I'd hate to see them waste money chasing a model that won't provide a sound ROI.
     
  7. RefugeEV

    RefugeEV Active Member

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    Looks bigger and taller than a WRX. I'm hoping it's a rugged little off-road capable crossover sized like the Juke, C-HR, CX3, but cooler looking than those.
     
  8. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    I agree. They are playing Tesla’s game of too many irons in the fire. Wait until profitability before starting new projects.
     
  9. A Hawk

    A Hawk Active Member

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    Might not be the soundest financial move but projects like this certainly generate buzz, which could turn out to be a sound financial move if it helps them sell the R1T and R1S when they launch. As well as with an eventual stock IPO. One thing's for sure - no way Tesla would have had as much cash and its shares trade in such crazy high multiples without the buzz and hype it's been able to generate.
     
  10. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that Tesla is in serious financial trouble, right?
     
  11. A Hawk

    A Hawk Active Member

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    Absolutely. My point is it would have long been bankrupt without the capital it's been able to attract due to the interest and buzz it (Musk) generates. I personally much prefer Rivian's approach of staying low key and letting its products / technology mostly speak for itself. But some buzz and hype doesn't hurt attract investors and capital, vital to a startup.
     
  12. ACDC

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    Looks like it could be a 4 door hatchback. The beefy rally-like fenders remind me of this.


    2017 Civic Hatchback Prototype New York Debut-15.jpg 2017 Civic Hatchback Prototype New York Debut-21.jpg
     
  13. Ranma

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    I love that Scaringe said that it will be "bananas" in how the rally model will perform. The R1T and R1S performance figures are already staggering, if the rally model is bananas compared to those, it's going to be :surprised:

    R1R would make total sense for a name.
     
  14. skyote

    skyote Active Member

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    Obviously a 4 door, but I'm hoping for something more exciting like a Rally Fighter. I've seen a couple...they definitely get attention.6740c703288f23df10cc1d2b0721fb2e_large.jpg
     
  15. Hall Monitor

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    That would be totally out of the box and awesome!

    Wouldn't be surprised if it was something radical looking judging by the spied body shell and by Scaringe's description of it as a lifted car with short wheelbase and a lot of ground clearance.
     
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  16. bathbunny

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    Actually, there are lots of reasons to doubt that. Wall Street has this microscopic vision when it comes to Tesla, interpreting every cough or blink of Musk's and every change in personnel as if the company's future was at stake each time -- I cannot remember any company undergoing that level of scrutiny in the financial world. (If Wall Street had paid the mortgage industry just 1/100 of the attention they are paying now to Tesla, which in terms of capital represents far less than 1% of that mortgage industry, the crash of 2008 would never have taken place...). Wall Street has been wrong on Tesla at every turn so far, just like it has been wrong on Amazon since it was founded...

    That Tesla is having a cash crunch at present is almost certainly true, but it's hardly a surprise, as it has to do a huge build up in Shanghai (the Gigafactory building will be ready for setting up the production lines in 6mos, so Tesla must buy a lot of very expensive equipment) and another at Gigafactory 1 (and there they have to continue adding to the current building, which is only 1/3 complete, so they have both construction costs and equipment costs); in addition, they need to get started on planning a production line for the semi and they have a bubble propagating down the production-payment-delivery line due to their starting shipments to Europe and China, with long transit times for the vehicles on the ships.

    But, and that's the key, it's all investments in battery and vehicle production, it's temporary (the bubble will disappear in a month or two, when shipments to other lands are routine, and the buildup in Shanghai will be over by end of year) and they still own the EV market and will continue to do so for the next couple of years at least -- the only real competition coming up before 2022 is the Porsche Taycan, which will ship around New Year and will probably take some sales away from Model S. (VW is getting close to something real, but their first vehicle looks like it will be a Golf-type and will most likely be aimed at Europe. The new Nissan Leaf is quite nice, but overpriced in comparison with the base Model 3, and not made in large volumes. Very little is known about efficiency for the forthcoming vehicle projects -- but so far nothing has come even close to Tesla.)
    Assuming their expectations for Model Y pan out (again, there is no competition for it for at least 2 years), Tesla will have plenty of time to recoup their current investments.

    If Rivian produces another niche vehicle for rally racing, that's great -- the more BEVs out there in the press, on social networks and TV, and in the streets, the better. But it's not Rivian that's driving the scene; at this point, if Tesla were to fail, Rivian would fail very soon thereafter. The real risk is that various propaganda machines set up by the likes of the Koch brothers are out to discredit clean energy in general, BEVs more specifically, and Tesla in particular, and if they can convince Wall Street to drive Tesla's stock down by 80%, they might just succeed in killing Tesla, delay wide adoption of BEVs by 10 years, and almost certainly kill our civilization's last chance at survival... (Europe will try to pull ahead on the energy front anyway, but it is increasingly disunited; and nationalist types, on the ascendant in Europe just like Trump has been in the US, never seem concerned about the future...)
     
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  17. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    "The real risk is that various propaganda machines set up by the likes of the Koch brothers are out to discredit clean energy in general"

    BEV's are not clean in anyway. The vast majority of them are powered by electricity that is produced from burning coal. Tesla's have a carbon footprint of around a 45MPG ICE vehicle. And even if we had an electric society, it won't reverse climate change in anyway because we are destroying our carbon sinks. The ONLY way for humans to reverse climate change is to end animal agriculture and start a massive replanting of the nearly 2 billion hectares destroyed for feed crop and grazing land.
     
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  18. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    Oh, also, Tesla has one of the worst reliability and service ratings. As new BEV's are being produced by the major players, the less Tesla's are going to appeal to the mainstream because they can't even get them worked on in a reasonable amount of time.
     
  19. bathbunny

    bathbunny Member

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    That's a seriously fallacious argument about BEVs and about electrical energy.
    The whole point of BEVs is that they provide a significant incentive for the electric power industry to move away from fossil fuels and invest in non-polluting energy production (wind, geothermal, solar with battery backups, hydro, etc.), BEVs are as clean as the electricity they consume -- they will grow cleaner (not just future ones, but also existing ones) as states and countries acquire cleaner means of electrical production. In contrast, you cannot run a zero-carbon ICE car...

    My own Model 3 Tesla is completely zero-carbon: living in Hawaii, I charge it exclusively at home from my solar panels -- I do not use any electricity from the utility for the car (or for anything else) and never use fossil fuels for anything beyond a Christmas candle or two...

    Obviously, not everyone lives where solar energy is plentiful, but power companies can produce electricity where natural, non-polluting energy sources abound and move it around the country or even between countries. There are plenty of studies showing that all of the energy going into electricity production and fuel-based transportation could be produced from such non-polluting, renewable sources -- it would take a huge effort on the part of all countries to make that change, yes, but it's entirely doable.

    I am all for replanting and changing our diet (I am a vegetarian for ecological reasons) to minimize the impact of agriculture -- that's very important; but that's an enormous cultural change in the Americas (think of Trump's characterization of the Green New Deal: "they are going to take away your hamburger"), one that's going to take far more time to accomplish than moving to clean energy. Moreover, replanting millions of hectares with natural cover would not suffice anyway if we continue to burn fossil fuels. We need both!
    So, please, let's not belittle clean energy and clean transportation ;-)

    So far, Hawaii, California, and New Mexico have committed to zero-carbon emission (Hawaii) or 100%s renewable (California, New Mexico) energy by 2045; more states will join. In those states, BEVs will be completely clean cars; electric buses and trains will not produce CO2 or sulfur compounds; etc.

    (PS. Tesla's use of energy averages around 250Wh/mi with AC, around 375Wh/mi with heater in cold weather-- my own Model 3 over 10mos averages 230Wh/mi with AC always on. A gallon of gasoline has 36.6KWh of energy, so we're really looking at about 95mpg equivalent when using the heater and 144mpg equivalent when using the AC, nowhere close to the 45mpg you mention.)
     
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  20. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    #20 Hmp10, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    Only about 25% of electricity in the U.S. is currently generated by coal, and that figure is declining steadily. Where I live, Florida Power & Light is expanding solar farms at the second-fastest rate in the nation. They closed their last coal-fired generation plant last year and are closing two more oil-fired plants this year. Right now they generate with a combination of four nuclear plants, a few remaining oil-fired plants, more natural-gas fired plants, and solar farms. By 2030, they expect 40% of their generation to come from solar, with remaining oil-fired plants closed and the other 60% coming from nuclear and natural gas.

    The two largest producers of fossil-fuel-fired turbine generators in the world, GE and Siemens, are both under financial stress because of the world-wide decline in fossil-fuel generation, as nuclear remains big in Europe and all regions of the developed world are transitioning to wind and solar generation far more quickly than was predicted even a decade ago. Germany, for instance, plans to generate 35% of its power from renewable sources by 2020, and it has already been exporting excess solar power from peak production periods for several years.

    If ubiquitous fast-charging were to appear overnight (it won't) and the world were to rush to EV's, the need to meet that electricity demand would probably necessitate a return, at least for a while, to more fossil-fueled generation. But the fossil fuels to which we would resort first would most likely be natural gas, followed by oil, with coal bringing up the rear.

    Economics as well as environmental issues are working against the coal industry, and no amount of campaign promises or rolling back of clean air regulations is going to change that.
     

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