What We Do Not Know - Important Information Still Needed to Make an Informed Decision

[Coast2Coast]

@davrow_R1T In other words, you're saying a new price will be set for a 2 row R1S without a "Max" pack and new prices set for 2 row and 3 row R1Ss with "Max" packs. 4 different prices for 4 different configurations?

This seems contrary to the policy of limiting choices and configurations in order to simplify the production ramp up that begins in a few months.

I don't see a way to eliminate the choice of 2 rows or 3. It's possible the R1S is being redesigned for a "Max" pack installation and that will be the only choice when production begins. That still leaves two choices: a 2 or 3 row R1S with "Max" packs. They represent different values to consumers.

Of course, nothing has been paid for. All that has happened is preorders have been turned into timed reservations but with tentative pricing set for those reservations.

All I'm saying is pricing should be adjusted for different configurations as they represent different value propositions: 2 or 3 rows and, possibly, large and max battery packs. Even if there is one battery pack at launch, there's still 2 and 3 row versions. Will they be priced the same? It's unlikely.

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[davrow_R1T]

@davrow_R1T In other words, you're saying a new price will be set for a 2 row R1S without a "Max" pack and new prices set for 2 row and 3 row R1Ss with "Max" packs. 4 different prices for 4 different configurations?

Nope. I'm saying they will set their prices however they want without regard to your particular feelings on the matter.

 

[electruck]

@electruck, are you saying that 2 row and 3 row versions will be priced the same even though one forgoes a third row seat that obviously has value? Even if the R1S is being redesigned to accommodate the "Max" battery pack, if we've locked in a LE R1S, it is priced with 3 rows of seating.

Seats, seat belts, air bags, folding mechanisms have value. If those are given up for a "Max" pack, some credits are due. If those are given up without any credits, that's wrong. We've been charged for something, in the LE, that we did not receive.

I am not stating what will actually happen as we obviously don't have that info yet. I am merely suggesting that you may be expecting too much.

I was also suggesting that that the capacity of the "Max" pack will not be contingent on whether you get get 5 or 7 seat configuration thus you would not be forced to give up anything to obtain the "Max" battery pack. By choosing the 5 seat configuration, you lose the weight of the third row hardware, hopefully achieve a perfectly flat load floor without exposed rails or holes in trim, don't have to fuss with removing and storing the 3rd row externally, etc. Also keep in mind that they do still have to offset the engineering involved with different rear trim, the added manufacturing cost and complexity of supporting another configuration, etc. I believe Rivian will observe enough value to the customer relative to folding down the 3rd row that they won't price it differently (although I would certainly welcome it if they did).

 

[electruck]

And to clarify further, they absolutely will charge a different price for "Large" vs "Max" battery packs ($10k for this upgrade in the R1T to be exact, although it may be somewhat less for R1S since the "Max" pack for R1S may end up being smaller than for the R1T).

I will not be at all surprised if there is no cost difference between 2 and 3 row seating configurations, especially if seating configuration is independent of battery size as it appears they are trying to achieve with the redesign. While this leads to 4 product permutations it only results in 2 pricing permutations. Regarding battery and seating there would be 2 prices which would be determined by the battery pack:

• 2 or 3 row with Large pack (note LE pricing falls into this)
• 2 or 3 row with Max pack

 

[MisterTea]

I asked CS which battery pack will do 0-60 in 3 seconds. They didn't tell me which but it seems as though each battery pack may have a package option for faster speeds like how Tesla has Ludicrous as an option.

 

[jimcgov3]

I asked CS which battery pack will do 0-60 in 3 seconds. They didn't tell me which but it seems as though each battery pack may have a package option for faster speeds like how Tesla has Ludicrous as an option.

From Nov '18 through now, they have always stated that the Large pack, formally the 135, would be the model with the 0-60 speed of 3.0 seconds...

 

[thrill]

From Nov '18 through now, they have always stated that the Large pack, formally the 135, would be the model with the 0-60 speed of 3.0 seconds...

I don't really see how it could be the heavier version unless there were significantly different motors. Indeed, it seems like it'd be the lightest version, but perhaps they trade it off and save some additional weight elsewhere in the power system in that one to try to reduce cost.

 

[MReda]

I don't really see how it could be the heavier version unless there were significantly different motors. Indeed, it seems like it'd be the lightest version, but perhaps they trade it off and save some additional weight elsewhere in the power system in that one to try to reduce cost.

Most likely, however the packs are configured in the smallest version, the large pack has a higher max current.

 

[jimcgov3]

I don't really see how it could be the heavier version unless there were significantly different motors. Indeed, it seems like it'd be the lightest version, but perhaps they trade it off and save some additional weight elsewhere in the power system in that one to try to reduce cost.

All three versions of the truck have a top speed of 125 miles per hour. The midrange battery pack version is the quickest, according to Rivian, hitting 60 miles per hour in three seconds flat, thanks to a total power output of 562kW (about 750 horsepower). The 400-mile battery version of the truck sends 522kW (about 700 horsepower) to the gearbox and will hit the 60 mph mark in 3.2 seconds. The cheaper short-range version will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds, with 300kW of power (about 400 horsepower) on offer.

 

[Coast2Coast]

Nope. I'm saying they will set their prices however they want without regard to your particular feelings on the matter.

It's not a question of my feelings. Prices are related to costs, perceived value and what makers think people will pay. Take something away, and prices are adjusted. Put in something new, and prices are adjusted.

 

[Headingley]

Nope. I'm saying they will set their prices however they want without regard to your particular feelings on the matter.

This is not true at all. No company will price a product without an understanding of what the consumer will pay. They will, as you point out, price the product based on what the market will allow. The market, of course, is based on a group of individuals. Thus the perception of individuals in the market absolutely matters when it comes to pricing.

I have also made the point that pricing a 7 seat and 5 seat version equally makes little sense based on what I know...which isn't much because I'm still not sure what the actual differences between the two versions will be in terms of cargo space. My perception is that the "configurator" is in early stages, will likely undergo changes/refinements, and prices will likely also change when it comes time to make the actual purchase.

 

[jjwolf120]

Nope. I'm saying they will set their prices however they want without regard to your particular feelings on the matter.

My feelings matter!

 

[azbill]

All three versions of the truck have a top speed of 125 miles per hour. The midrange battery pack version is the quickest, according to Rivian, hitting 60 miles per hour in three seconds flat, thanks to a total power output of 562kW (about 750 horsepower). The 400-mile battery version of the truck sends 522kW (about 700 horsepower) to the gearbox and will hit the 60 mph mark in 3.2 seconds. The cheaper short-range version will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds, with 300kW of power (about 400 horsepower) on offer.

There are two factors in acceleration, weight of the vehicle and C rating of the battery output. It is a safe assumption that the C rating of each cell, or each module, in the batteries are identical for all three sizes. Lets assume for a moment a C rating of 3, just as a number. That means a 105KW pack could output 315 KW instantaneously, a 135KW pack could output 405KW instantaneously and a 180 KW pack could output 540 KW instantaneously. So a smaller battery pack has less output capability than a bigger one, but it also is lighter due to the smaller battery. The biggest pack has the best power output, but the weight of the vehicle is increased, thus reducing the effectiveness of the extra power. Somewhere in the middle, in this case, is the best balance for power and weight in the mid sized battery pack.

 

[jimcgov3]

There are two factors in acceleration, weight of the vehicle and C rating of the battery output. It is a safe assumption that the C rating of each cell, or each module, in the batteries are identical for all three sizes. Lets assume for a moment a C rating of 3, just as a number. That means a 105KW pack could output 315 KW instantaneously, a 135KW pack could output 405KW instantaneously and a 180 KW pack could output 540 KW instantaneously. So a smaller battery pack has less output capability than a bigger one, but it also is lighter due to the smaller battery. The biggest pack has the best power output, but the weight of the vehicle is increased, thus reducing the effectiveness of the extra power. Somewhere in the middle, in this case, is the best balance for power and weight in the mid sized battery pack.

Whoa. I am just copying and pasting off an article from Rivian's original press statements. You can also see the attached photo on the different specs...this one has been floating around and can be found at https://media.rivian.com/rivian-launches-worlds-first-electric-adventure-vehiclestm/. I wish I was at the level that some of you are at. C ratings are out of my wheelhouse.

 

[Gshenderson]

There are two factors in acceleration, weight of the vehicle and C rating of the battery output. It is a safe assumption that the C rating of each cell, or each module, in the batteries are identical for all three sizes. Lets assume for a moment a C rating of 3, just as a number. That means a 105KW pack could output 315 KW instantaneously, a 135KW pack could output 405KW instantaneously and a 180 KW pack could output 540 KW instantaneously. So a smaller battery pack has less output capability than a bigger one, but it also is lighter due to the smaller battery. The biggest pack has the best power output, but the weight of the vehicle is increased, thus reducing the effectiveness of the extra power. Somewhere in the middle, in this case, is the best balance for power and weight in the mid sized battery pack.

The power output, however, is usually regulated by a power control module so that it only outputs as much power as other components such as wiring and drivetrain can handle. But you are correct that it would take more power to make a heavier truck accelerate at the same rate.

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