Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING]

[Nuclianba]

I believe this author is claiming the EV tax credits from the old bill are being put into the Schumer manchin compromise bill.

He's plain wrong, he's referencing build back better. He doesn't understand how the senate procedures work...he is seeing that BBB was read in the senate thursday and concluded (falsely) that this meant he had found the new text because it had an updated date of Aug 3 in it. You can compare the bill he references with the 8/3/2022 date on it with the BBB bill that passed the house months ago...and they are the same. See here: https://diffonline.net/YenHFlkhrY

So basically...nothing to see here....move along....until the updated text of Inflation Reduction Act is released (my guess is not until later today after the Parliamentarian has blessed it) we have no new info.

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[zipzag]

Rivian will sell all the R1's they need to with or without a tax credit

I doubt Rivian is completely comfortable with you assertion. Even in a few years if they are selling out production the lack of tax credit will likely meaningly reduce vehicle options purchased. Their business plan is to sell all kinds of high margin add-ons to suckers owners.

 

[zipzag]

He's plain wrong, he's referencing build back better. ..

Interesting. If true the author has some major backtracking to do.

Anyone know if the $225000 head of household limit is actually in the current bill? Or is it $150K for all single people.

 

[Friscorays]

https://www.voltequity.com/post/new-ev-tax-credits-for-tesla-in-2022

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376/text

If this proves correct, an unexpectedly good Friday for me: my pre-March 1 R1S preorder is about $25 under the 80k cap and the 500k income cap (somewhat unfortunately) applies to me as well.

 

[DJG]

I doubt Rivian is completely comfortable with you assertion. Even in a few years if they are selling out production the lack of tax credit will likely meaningly reduce vehicle options purchased. Their business plan is to sell all kinds of high margin add-ons to suckers owners.

Add ons won't be affected when the base price is already over the MSRP cap (they've already said even with the lower price options most people are optioning the higher priced), the buyer is over the income cap, or both. I have little doubt that they can sell 32k R1's a year (each model roughly) with or without a tax credit. There are far inferior products selling at least that per year for as much or more money. For the people that appreciate what they offer, they are worth far more than they cost. I think the full R1 models will normalize well above $100k to match demand with supply.

But also, it doesn't matter whether they sell 30k or not. What matters is whether they can sell hundreds of thousands of R2's, which is much more important to be on a level playing field. The company's future depends on that product line (and also commercial side), not the R1 (just like Tesla wouldn't exist today without the Model 3 and then Y). If R2 is successful, they could shut down the R1 product line entirely and be just fine. It's main purpose was to be a halo product that got people/investors excited about their capabilities enough to believe in them which it accomplished.

 

[Nuclianba]

If this proves correct, an unexpectedly good Friday for me: my pre-March 1 R1S preorder is about $25 under the 80k cap and the 500k income cap (somewhat unfortunately) applies to me as well.

Its not correct. This guy is misinformed. See my earlier post. Don't know why I feel so motivated to keep his wrong info from spreading!

 

[TXR1S]

Its not correct. This guy is misinformed. See my earlier post. Don't know why I feel so motivated to keep his wrong info from spreading!

you’re correct. The volt equity guy has no idea what he’s talking about.

 

[Friscorays]

Its not correct. This guy is misinformed. See my earlier post. Don't know why I feel so motivated to keep his wrong info from spreading!

Oh well. One thing I can always count on is this forum bringing me down.

 

[zipzag]

Add ons won't be affected when the base price is already over the MSRP cap (they've already said even with the lower price options most people are optioning the higher priced), the buyer is over the income cap, or both. I have little doubt that they can sell 32k R1's a year (each model roughly) with or without a tax credit. There are far inferior products selling at least that per year for as much or more money. For the people that appreciate what they offer, they are worth far more than they cost. I think the full R1 models will normalize well above $100k to match demand with supply.

But also, it doesn't matter whether they sell 30k or not. What matters is whether they can sell hundreds of thousands of R2's, which is much more important to be on a level playing field. The company's future depends on that product line (and also commercial side), not the R1 (just like Tesla wouldn't exist today without the Model 3 and then Y). If R2 is successful, they could shut down the R1 product line entirely and be just fine. It's main purpose was to be a halo product that got people/investors excited about their capabilities enough to believe in them which it accomplished.

If the EV markets stays very hot I wonder if Rivian is helped or hurt. They remain parts constrained, which means they are competing with much larger manufacturers for supplier contracts. While I reflexively assume everything GM does is wrong, as a supplier I prefer my big customers.

Hopefully Rivian benefits from the constrained production ramp by gaining a reputation for good quality

 

[mabowden]

You and I are on the same page. The only color I would want with RB for an interior is OC. That would be my preferred choice. I really am torn between GW and LS. I am worried I would have to take delivery of LS without seeing it in person and it seems like every picture I see of LS it literally looks different each time.

I would also consider FE with the GW because I do like that wood, but the price premium for FE is too much.

I have owned many white cars and would like to switch it up but I feel confident I know what the GW is going to look like and feel like I'm really rolling the dice with LS. El Cap is nice as well, and my First Mile vehicle had El Cap with BM and it was nice.

Photos are funny with LS. A lot of photos are being taken with iPhones, and iPhones will make it look much more blue than it actually is. Yes, the undertones are blue, but it doesn't look blue IMHO. Only a good camera will capture it the right way.

I think this photo captures the true color pretty well, albeit in direct bright sunlight. It is a color you should see in person. I like it because it is a little different and will go very well with BM. However, GW goes very well with BM too.

 

[rohobono]

It's not any more absurd than you deriding someone else for having a boat.

Please stop twisting my words. I am not deriding anyone over owning a boat. I am only DOUBTING the SINCERITY of someone who claims to care about the environment while ALSO shopping for a luxury ev AND owning a boat. I never made any claims about boat owners in general. The closest thing to that would be:

Though I'm sure most people, even in the "western world of money and wants", would agree that owning your own boat would qualify as at least a little bit excessive.

I don't know how saying that I believe most people would think that owning a boat qualifies as excessive is deriding boat owners. Now, if you assume excess to be something that's bad, then maybe you could claim I was implying something that would be considered as deriding boat owners. However, I never qualified excess as something that is bad(or good). I only questioned the compatibility of a lifestyle with excess and a genuine care for the environment.

 

[SASSquatch]

I understand what they are trying to do with the current legislation, including sourcing of raw battery materials, but there are two major flaws that will have a devastating impact on NEW manufacturers:

• Not allowing them cap free consumer credit of $7,500 for their first 200,000 sales under the original legislation
• Not extending the transition period to allow adequate time to see fruit from existing investments to bring more refining of raw battery materials to North America. Canada, in particular, has enormous capacity that we are only just now getting started with and that will take years to see results from.

RIVIAN needs to immediately provide all reservation holders the option to enter a binding purchase agreement that can be broken out of with some nominal penalty to protect existing reservation holders from potentially being priced out of the R1T.

RIVIAN has COMPLETE control of this process and does not need congress to change anything. Of course, it benefits them to seek changes to the legislation, including softening the income and price caps, so if I were them, I would be furiously lobbying Durbin/Duckworth to push for these changes.

If those changes don't happen, purchase agreements MUST be forthcoming for them to avoid another mass cancellation of reservations.

This legislation is designed to penalize new EV manufacturers and has GM, FORD, and Teslas fingerprints ALL over it.

 

[SASSquatch]

Photos are funny with LS. A lot of photos are being taken with iPhones, and iPhones will make it look much more blue than it actually is. Yes, the undertones are blue, but it doesn't look blue IMHO. Only a good camera will capture it the right way.

I think this photo captures the true color pretty well, albeit in direct bright sunlight. It is a color you should see in person. I like it because it is a little different and will go very well with BM. However, GW goes very well with BM too.

Thank you for this photo. I have to admit that in that picture, it looks very sharp and I agree with you that it LS will go really well with BM.

You are making my decision that much harder, but I appreciate the data points. If I give up the 22" wheels and pay for LS, I will still come out $300 less then where I was before.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Please stop twisting my words. I am not deriding anyone over owning a boat. I am only DOUBTING the SINCERITY of someone who claims to care about the environment while ALSO shopping for a luxury ev AND owning a boat. I never made any claims about boat owners in general. The closest thing to that would be:



I don't know how saying that I believe most people would think that owning a boat qualifies as excessive is deriding boat owners. Now, if you assume excess to be something that's bad, then maybe you could claim I was implying something that would be considered as deriding boat owners. However, I never qualified excess as something that is bad(or good). I only questioned the compatibility of a lifestyle with excess and a genuine care for the environment.

Well I’d like to know when you were elected to be the grand arbiter for when concern for the environment goes from being genuine to having too much stuff to care?

Thing about the word excess is it’s relative and also item dependent. I’m sure there are things you own that I would see as wasteful but that doesn’t mean I get to apply my moral stance to you in the form of a value judgement. I don’t see how the purchase of an EV and a boat makes someone environmentally irresponsible.

For all you know the person in question could have a boat for cleaning up lakes and maintaining waterways and wildlife habitats. Gatekeepers are living in glass houses throwing rocks around. Just like how you felt the need to tell someone they own too much stuff to have genuine care for the environment I’m now judging you and your stance. Doesn’t feel good does it?

I think it would be better for everyone if you were a little more tolerant of the choices of others instead of gatekeeping environmental responsibility.

 

[jollyroger]

Please stop twisting my words. I am not deriding anyone over owning a boat. I am only DOUBTING the SINCERITY of someone who claims to care about the environment while ALSO shopping for a luxury ev AND owning a boat. I never made any claims about boat owners in general. The closest thing to that would be:

I was going to leave this, but since it keeps coming up, and I was the one with the boat I'll clarify a couple of things. So to be clear I'm working on my sailing lessons and will be transitioning to a sailboat for the same environmental reasons I'm trying to replace my very old loud and leaky diesel truck. I don't have the money to do it all at once . I'm not going to be perfect but I'm going to be better than I was. We started with solar, moved to our first small EV, sold our Audi Q5 and got a tesla M3. Now looking to replace the truck, and eventually I'll probably go sail, or if there are EV powerboats that are viable and have a good range (Pretty important since I haven't seen any DC Fast charging buoys yet) I may consider that too. I'm sure we'll get there. One of my favorite quotes from a retired Army general was "leave it better than it was".

I don't know how saying that I believe most people would think that owning a boat qualifies as excessive is deriding boat owners. Now, if you assume excess to be something that's bad, then maybe you could claim I was implying something that would be considered as deriding boat owners. However, I never qualified excess as something that is bad(or good). I only questioned the compatibility of a lifestyle with excess and a genuine care for the environment.

We'll I'm not, not going to go boating. We just love the water too much and it affords us time away from crowds, like in the LA area land. I promise to keep things running smooth, maintain seals and use environmentally friendly cleaning products in the meantime. Truck is our next step, since we use that far more than we use the boat.

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