Switched from Launch Edition Quad to Dual Motor Max Pack Performance -- my impressions / review

[R.I.P.]

Just do your own research before deciding that Rivian has solved the mystery of how to make double digit efficiency in motor technology over Bosch.

Lots of variables in one individuals perceived differences. Temps....tire pressures...wind direction....just keep that in mind.

Unless we can get Rivian to weigh in on how much more efficient the motors are in the Enduro vs Bosch, we are all mostly using anecdotal info and individual perceptions to make recommendations.

So I am curious...from what you saw in the difference between comfortably making that trip in AP DM vs noway in QM conserve....what is your guess? How much has Rivian found in advancing motor efficiency?

Hypermiling through the desert in both, I can squeeze 40 to 50 miles more out of the Enduro machine.

Consider that each motor, and each inverter comes with its own set of losses. Cutting those losses in half, by going from two motors and two inverters to one motor and one inverter while cruising at freeway speeds through the deserts means at least halving those losses; but it goes beyond that. The enduro motor is a Tesla copy, and is marginally more efficient. Rivian has also boasted of the high efficiency they have been able to squeeze out of the new front inverter (The rear is still on par with the old Bosch). A dramatically better cooling system, that needs to use less energy to keep things at proper operating temperature, and it has made a dramatic difference for these hypermiling trips. Hour after hour at a constant speed in the desert, those losses add up.

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[NineElectrics]

You need to give context for range. Simply saying you have more is irrelevant. What wheels did you have on the launch edition? What wheels do you have now? I get about the same range as a dual motor on my quad. I have 20’s on 275/60/20. 343 real world miles over 10 days in my everyday driving from 100% to 0% in conserve mode normal height. For anyone that locked in for pre price hike, going to the dual motor is silly. Just put on smaller tires.
Now I bet if you put on 20’s with 275/60/20 you would see more than the 352 claimed range number. Smaller wheels are more efficient.

My use case is: with 20" winter tires, ] a roof rack and cargo carrier, I drive up winter highways and then up steep mountain roads, then turn around. Temperatures range from -10 to 35 F. For most of that trip I'm going 60+ mph. I'm on 20" R600 wheels with Nokia Hakka LT3 studies winter tires (275/65/20). For these trips I don't use conserve; I want all wheel drive when I need it for dangerous and snowy mountain passes.

I kept these wheels and tires, so I'll be transferring them to the dual next week. For now I have the same 21" wheels and tires on the dual that I originally had on my quad. So, I don't yet have any winter trips on the dual max pack. However, the max pack battery has 10 kWh more juice, which translates into at least 20 more miles in winter--likely more because of the increased efficiency of the Enduro setup, since I won't use conserve. This is actually meaningful for me. Loaded up with all of this drag, in the bitter cold, up hills, sometimes my 100% range can be as low as 180 miles. Without a charger at my destination, or any along my route, this means my max trip range is only 90 miles. However, there are some fun things I want to do that are 100 miles away.

Congratulations on your numbers. I would love to have those! But, Florida is a) sunny/warm, b) flat, and c) snowless, so you can use conserve all the time and the heater never runs. It looks like your average MPH is only 30. I don't doubt you'll get great efficiency under those conditions. You're living the best case scenario. The only better case would be if you were also at 3-5,000 feet, where the air would be thinner. I also think you'd get more range (~35 miles) in the dual max pack, though, simply because of the increased battery. At 30 MPH average, you're in EPA city mode territory, and Enduro drive ratios on the front motors combined with its "dynamic conserve" have shown good results there--though who knows, maybe as much as conserve mode nets. I doubt it on the highway, though, since the front motor enduro has a gear ratio of only 11:1, which beats the quad's 12.6:1.

This is apples-to-oranges, but here, https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=53765&flag=1, conserve mode nets 447 EPA highway miles for an R1S with 21" wheels. The same configuration with dual motor max pack (at https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/attachments/foi_privt00-0sep_appipt1-pdf.75046/) yields 510 synthetic miles. That's an improvement of 63 synthetic miles, which would obviously need to be scaled down for real world range (44 at 0.7 adjustment), but at least the EPA finds an improvement. The UDDS (city) difference is 100 synthetic miles. Some of that is obviously the bigger battery. Conserve definitely gets close to max pack range on the highway test.

 

[NineElectrics]

With a top speed of 110, I don't know that the rivian would make much use of a two speed transmission compared to a taycan. The split ratios are enough unless you are wanting a real low range for super slow rock crawling.

FYI, I believe the Porsche switches gears at around 50 MPH.

 

[NineElectrics]

Hypermiling through the desert in both, I can squeeze 40 to 50 miles more out of the Enduro machine.

Are you on the max pack?

 

[R.I.P.]

Are you on the max pack?

Nope, Large pack; so apples to apples comparison.

 

[Hillbilly]

@NineElectrics - you're saying the motor whine is about the same? Is that all of the time or just when both motors are engaged? Any sense of how it compared to conserve mode on the quad?

One thing I'm personally hoping for with the DM is motor whine that is reduced. I know some like it, but I have an unfortunate affliction where I can hear high pitched noises much more clearly and loudly than most people. It sucks.

That's my biggest gripe about the quad. I'm sensitive to it too. Like nails on a chalkboard. I have to make sure the music is up when driving and I'm not really a music guy.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

So I finally signed up for a Tidal trial based on your comment (and of others) but I really can’t notice much of a difference, if any. I also have the Meridian system in my R1T and confirmed both are streaming at the highest possible quality. Are there any tracks you can suggest where you noticed a big difference between the two services?

I was out driving last night and went back and forth with a few songs. The difference wasn't so obvious that the same song, between the two apps yielded a "Eureka!" moment. It's more subtle and when listening to several songs via one, then switching to the other, the compression losses are subtle, but they're there.

Depends on what songs you're into as well. Songs from Led Zepplin, Phil Collins are fully Master editions, meaning full bit rates. I was comparing Pneuma by Tool and you could hear subtle differences in the background, guitars, and drums. Spotify has a fantastic compression algorithm but the more you listen to other sources, the more you notice Spotify has a fall off on the outer edges of our hearing range.

One massive perk Spotify on Rivian's system has is stability, and just better user experience. Tidal has the sound quality, but there are times I hate the app. The tiles need to be slightly smaller, and offer more on the main page. The search function should retain your last search as well, rather than start at a blank page constantly.

Another thing I've noticed is Tidal and Spotify download several songs ahead on your playlist. As an example, if you're listening to a 100 song playlist during your drive, and lose connection going through a mountain pass, or the like, it will continue to play a dozen or more songs locally before hitting the end of it's cached list. You can also go back through the songs in the list if you hit the end. This won't work if you've changed playlists prior to losing service, or while out of service.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

That's my biggest gripe about the quad. I'm sensitive to it too. Like nails on a chalkboard. I have to make sure the music is up when driving and I'm not really a music guy.

Nails on a chalkboard? That's a bit dramatic. I can hear very well, despite working in construction, and the motor noise/drone/whine whatever people want to call it, is there for sure, but not so much that it's deafening or annoying. The harmonics change when preconditioning, and I have noticed there's a point where the front and rear motor harmonics resonate, that one is a bit funny, but not annoying or something I think needs to be hidden.

Each to their own.

 

[Hillbilly]

Nails on a chalkboard? That's a bit dramatic. I can hear very well, despite working in construction, and the motor noise/drone/whine whatever people want to call it, is there for sure, but not so much that it's deafening or annoying. The harmonics change when preconditioning, and I have noticed there's a point where the front and rear motor harmonics resonate, that one is a bit funny, but not annoying or something I think needs to be hidden.

Each to their own.

It's not about hearing well, it's a reaction to a frequency that makes my neck and back tense up. Same reaction I get to nails on a chalkboard or to the sound of open mouth brushing teeth (I have to have water running full blast and brush with lips closed around the brush end). If you experienced it you wouldn't call it dramatic, you'd just think it sucks.

 

[AbhorViolence]

You need to give context for range. Simply saying you have more is irrelevant. What wheels did you have on the launch edition? What wheels do you have now? I get about the same range as a dual motor on my quad. I have 20’s on 275/60/20. 343 real world miles over 10 days in my everyday driving from 100% to 0% in conserve mode normal height. For anyone that locked in for pre price hike, going to the dual motor is silly. Just put on smaller tires.
Now I bet if you put on 20’s with 275/60/20 you would see more than the 352 claimed range number. Smaller wheels are more efficient.

Did you get it recalibrated for the different tire size? If not then you need to subtract -3.2% from your (still excellent) numbers.

That would put you at 2.83 mi/kWh which is still phenomenal. I'm hoping for 2.5 when I get new tires (planning on going to 275/60/20 or may even try 55, from stock 65).

I agree that just about anyone with early pricing should jump on quad.

 

[anthonysfl]

Did you get it recalibrated for the different tire size? If not then you need to subtract -3.2% from your (still excellent) numbers.

That would put you at 2.83 mi/kWh which is still phenomenal. I'm hoping for 2.5 when I get new tires (planning on going to 275/60/20 or may even try 55, from stock 65).

I agree that just about anyone with early pricing should jump on quad.

I did not recalibrate. No real need to.

I also had a R1T large pack on 21’s. 5800 miles and had 2.31 lifetime mi/kwh. My R1S with running boards and mud flaps Lifetime over 5800 miles is 2.49.
not sure why Rivian didn’t offer a 20inch to maximize range. Smaller wheels are more efficient.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Hypermiling through the desert in both, I can squeeze 40 to 50 miles more out of the Enduro machine.

Consider that each motor, and each inverter comes with its own set of losses. Cutting those losses in half, by going from two motors and two inverters to one motor and one inverter while cruising at freeway speeds through the deserts means at least halving those losses; but it goes beyond that. The enduro motor is a Tesla copy, and is marginally more efficient. Rivian has also boasted of the high efficiency they have been able to squeeze out of the new front inverter (The rear is still on par with the old Bosch). A dramatically better cooling system, that needs to use less energy to keep things at proper operating temperature, and it has made a dramatic difference for these hypermiling trips. Hour after hour at a constant speed in the desert, those losses add up.

Not sure who mentioned it, but the silicon carbide inverter may have made it to the rear of the dual as well because the city mileage is way up on the EPA tests.

 

[HaveBlue]

FYI, I believe the Porsche switches gears at around 50 MPH.

The Taycan is also geared for 160mph with the ratios being 2x apart.

 

[NineElectrics]

Well drat, this car seems to “tock” a lot more than the quad. We’ll see what service has to say about it. It only occurs when the air suspension is active. Perhaps this car is so much quieter, I notice it more.

 

[Joules Burn]

One more observation: I beeped the horn and confusion reigned—where was the bicycle with a clown riding it? I would add a second horn given half a chance.

Here is your "half a chance". I tried this and it works very well.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...pgrade-installed-pics-video-sound-clip.22096/

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